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Serious truth about [Redacted]

liveanddiedeac

liveanddiedeac

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All tie, sock, Prius, and yoga jokes aside here's the real truth with Jeff [Redacted]. At best his ceiling is about what we saw last night. A team that played hard, did some nice things to get open looks that didn't fall, but just isn't going to have the talent to compete at the top of the ACC (especially the new ACC). This team has improved, the individual players for the most part have improved. CMM, Moto, Thomas, Cav, Washington, I think have all improved a good bit over last year and the staff has to get some credit for that. However, with Jeff [Redacted] at the helm, I just don't ever see us having the talent to compete at the top of the ACC. With the additions of Syracuse, Pitt, ND, and Louisville next year, along with the traditional ACC powers UNC and Duke, along with the other conference teams, there is always going to be at least a few really elite team in the conference every year. I think our program at Wake Forest should be a program that is in the top portion of the conference more years than not, it wasn't too long along that I think we were considered one of the better programs in the conference. We just are not going to get back there with Jeff [Redacted] at the helm. He's not a good enough recruiter, he's not a good enough promoter of the program, and he's not a good enough teacher to get us there. I'm as big a Bzzz-out guy as can be, but I do give him some credit in that I think this team has improved since last year. I just think that is going to pretty much be the ceiling for him, taking an average group of players, getting some modest improvement from them and maybe when he's got a bunch of seniors and juniors finishing in the middle of the conference, whoopy!!!!!

Last night was the first game in a good while that I was really pumped for and I was proud of the way our team fought, but with Jeff [Redacted] at the helm and the limitations on the recruiting trail he brings, I just don't see any scenerio where Jeff [Redacted] gets up competing at the very top of the conference. That should be the goal at Wake Forest for basketball, it has been in the past. I just don't see how anyone, even the most Bzzz-In person left, can make any kind of reasonable argument that [Redacted] could ever offer a ceiling any higher than the one I out-lined above.

Sorry for the soapbox, but just wanted to get that off my chest.
 
One reason we are "improved" is there are some really bad teams in the ACC this year. But decent teams make us look like what we are--mediocre. The Tennessee game. The Virginia game. Last night being out-rebounded 55-35. There is no reason to think we'll be appreciably better next year. He can't bring in the talent and he can't coach up what he does bring in. Compare Clawson's first two months to any of [Redacted]'s time here. Nuff said.
 
I have come to view bzz as incapable of inspiring a team of young men -- he has no interpersonal skills. As such, I wonder how much of the improvement the OP notes can be attributed to Battle, Chill and Rusty -- all nice guys who are probably capable of connecting with our players. Fair or unfair, I just can't throw bzz even a small bone after what I've seen over the past 3.5 years.
 
He'll compete in year six...well worth the wait for us deacs.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
All tie, sock, Prius, and yoga jokes aside here's the real truth with Jeff [Redacted]. At best his ceiling is about what we saw last night. A team that played hard, did some nice things to get open looks that didn't fall, but just isn't going to have the talent to compete at the top of the ACC (especially the new ACC). This team has improved, the individual players for the most part have improved. CMM, Moto, Thomas, Cav, Washington, I think have all improved a good bit over last year and the staff has to get some credit for that. However, with Jeff [Redacted] at the helm, I just don't ever see us having the talent to compete at the top of the ACC. With the additions of Syracuse, Pitt, ND, and Louisville next year, along with the traditional ACC powers UNC and Duke, along with the other conference teams, there is always going to be at least a few really elite team in the conference every year. I think our program at Wake Forest should be a program that is in the top portion of the conference more years than not, it wasn't too long along that I think we were considered one of the better programs in the conference. We just are not going to get back there with Jeff [Redacted] at the helm. He's not a good enough recruiter, he's not a good enough promoter of the program, and he's not a good enough teacher to get us there. I'm as big a Bzzz-out guy as can be, but I do give him some credit in that I think this team has improved since last year. I just think that is going to pretty much be the ceiling for him, taking an average group of players, getting some modest improvement from them and maybe when he's got a bunch of seniors and juniors finishing in the middle of the conference, whoopy!!!!!

Last night was the first game in a good while that I was really pumped for and I was proud of the way our team fought, but with Jeff [Redacted] at the helm and the limitations on the recruiting trail he brings, I just don't see any scenerio where Jeff [Redacted] gets up competing at the very top of the conference. That should be the goal at Wake Forest for basketball, it has been in the past. I just don't see how anyone, even the most Bzzz-In person left, can make any kind of reasonable argument that [Redacted] could ever offer a ceiling any higher than the one I out-lined above.

Sorry for the soapbox, but just wanted to get that off my chest.
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I think this is spot on. You gave credit where credit is due, stating the obvious improvement from the past couple years as well as the coaches ability to get these guys to play their tails off. All of that aside, I feel that most would agree that this is his ceiling as well. I'm not saying we can't finish the season strong and back our way into 19-20 wins and possibly an ACC tourney 1st round win but there are obvious limitations as you said. Unless something unforeseeable occurs and we work our way into the big dance, make a run to the sweet 16 and [Redacted] is deemed a hero, it's absolutely time to go our separate ways in 2015. I do really, really like the heart of the guys we have on this team though.
 
simosfrostyone said:
One reason we are "improved" is there are some really bad teams in the ACC this year. But decent teams make us look like what we are--mediocre. The Tennessee game. The Virginia game. Last night being out-rebounded 55-35. There is no reason to think we'll be appreciably better next year. He can't bring in the talent and he can't coach up what he does bring in. Compare Clawson's first two months to any of [Redacted]'s time here. Nuff said.
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Shelton Mitchell
 
I think the improvement this year can be attributed to the individual players naturally maturing, improving, and coming together as a team prompted by the players. Which leaves Bzzz out if the entire discussion. It's all players IMO.
 
simosfrostyone said:
One reason we are "improved" is there are some really bad teams in the ACC this year. But decent teams make us look like what we are--mediocre. The Tennessee game. The Virginia game. Last night being out-rebounded 55-35. There is no reason to think we'll be appreciably better next year. He can't bring in the talent and he can't coach up what he does bring in. Compare Clawson's first two months to any of [Redacted]'s time here. Nuff said.
Click to expand...

Last night getting out rebounded 55-35 was not on [Redacted] or anyone else on the coaching staff. Did the see those guys? They were bigger, stronger and more athletic than us. I watched numerous possessions that we battled harder for a rebound than we have all season but there is only so much you can do against a team like Syracuse.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
I think this is spot on. You gave credit where credit is due, stating the obvious improvement from the past couple years as well as the coaches ability to get these guys to play their tails off. All of that aside, I feel that most would agree that this is his ceiling as well. I'm not saying we can't finish the season strong and back our way into 19-20 wins and possibly an ACC tourney 1st round win but there are obvious limitations as you said. Unless something unforeseeable occurs and we work our way into the big dance, make a run to the sweet 16 and [Redacted] is deemed a hero, it's absolutely time to go our separate ways in 2015. I do really, really like the heart of the guys we have on this team though.
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I don't think you've watched very many away games...the team is clearly self motivating.
 
DeacsOrDie said:
I think the improvement this year can be attributed to the individual players naturally maturing, improving, and coming together as a team prompted by the players. Which leaves Bzzz out if the entire discussion. It's all players IMO.
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This goes back to putting all the blame on [Redacted] and not accepting that he has had a lot to due with the team molding. The players did naturally mature and have come together. Something that I haven't seen on a Wake basketball team since early Skip years. SOME of that has to be attributed to the coaching staff.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
Last night getting out rebounded 55-35 was not on [Redacted] or anyone else on the coaching staff. Did the see those guys? They were bigger, stronger and more athletic than us. I watched numerous possessions that we battled harder for a rebound than we have all season but there is only so much you can do against a team like Syracuse.
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[Redacted] has failed to recruit a servicable Big Man. The fault lies squarely on him.
 
WFU Lurker said:
I don't think you've watched very many away games...the team is clearly self motivating.
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I've watched every road game that was on TV and I agree we have absolutely laid eggs on the road. So have most of the rest of the ACC and outside of the conference as well. It's tough to win on the road.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
I don't disagree with this at all. This whole "experiment" has been a perfect storm. I mean Haas for god sake.
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Well if you don't disagree, why are you trying to absolve [Redacted] of responsibility. In 4 years, he has shaped this shitty roster that lacks a big man and a shooter.
 
pinochadeac said:
[Redacted] has failed to recruit a servicable Big Man. The fault lies squarely on him.
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He really has when you consider that Devin should be playing the 4 spot, instead of in the middle. I do like some of the signs Washington has shown this year, but he's still a project type player, we need a big guy that can come in and really contribute right away. Honestly though, when's the last time we had that? Even Tim Duncan was a project player when he got here, it's just he had so much raw ability that came through quickly. Eric Williams came in as a decent big man, but he had to be developed as well. Visser and Mcfarland definitely had to be developed.
 
pinochadeac said:
Well if you don't disagree, why are you trying to absolve [Redacted] of responsibility. In 4 years, he has shaped this shitty roster that lacks a big man and a shooter.
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I'm simply standing by the point that IMO it's hard to place 100% of the shitty situation we're in on him. Just like most everyone else I do feel this will be his last season as it should be. Had we landed Haas and not been given the run around by him, we'd be in a different situation right now.
 
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