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Serious truth about [Redacted]

Agree mostly, but here are a couple related points:

1. Just the nature of this large Soph class means they will improve over the next couple of years as they become juniors and seniors.

2. RW's stated goal is historically competitive and defined it as 'players that respresented Wake well on and off the court, defended its home court well and occassionally beat the top teams in the league'.

Buzz is showing improvement and with such a low bar, I am worried about RW doubling down with an extension.

IMO, until the goal for the basketball changes to 'Winning the Right Way', instead of 'Doing things the Right Way, while being Historically Competitive' (with or without Buzz), WF basketball will remain an after-thought to me.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
He really has when you consider that Devin should be playing the 4 spot, instead of in the middle. I do like some of the signs Washington has shown this year, but he's still a project type player, we need a big guy that can come in and really contribute right away. Honestly though, when's the last time we had that? Even Tim Duncan was a project player when he got here, it's just he had so much raw ability that came through quickly. Eric Williams came in as a decent big man, but he had to be developed as well. Visser and Mcfarland definitely had to be developed.
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This. There are maybe 10-20(if that) Big men in every class that are "can't miss" recruits. Fact of the matter is we have NEVER landed those guys.
 
Or, had he actually recruited ACC caliber players instead of future transfers, then maybe he wouldn't be where we are right now.

Again, the fault is squarely his. 100%.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
I'm simply standing by the point that IMO it's hard to place 100% of the shitty situation we're in on him. Just like most everyone else I do feel this will be his last season as it should be. Had we landed Haas and not been given the run around by him, we'd be in a different situation right now.
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How would Haas have helped our rebounding last night?
 
Hope everyone has a good one. Headed into meeting and will be back to uncover the serious truth on coach buzz this evening. Go Deacs.
 
DeacsOrDie said:
I think the improvement this year can be attributed to the individual players naturally maturing, improving, and coming together as a team prompted by the players. Which leaves Bzzz out if the entire discussion. It's all players IMO.
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We have substantially improved in terms of the half-court offense and in terms of defense. That is coaching and players doing what they are taught to do.

We are weak where the players themselves are lacking either in size and strength or in skill, particularly shooting the ball. Coaches design plays to get players in position to score or to defend; but they cannot actually shoot the ball or move their feet or put their bodies on the opposition to block out. The players must do that.

The staff have these guys in the right positions for the most part. Perhaps the staff could do better in teaching guys to shoot the ball. Perhaps they can improve their vertical and make them stronger to defend the interior and to rebound. But it is wrong to say it is all the players. We are running plays better than we have in many years and we are defending cuts off screens better than we were a month ago. That is coaching.

We are not recruiting better however, as has been pointed out. That MUST change.

BTW, it is not accurate to say that the staff doesn't have these guys playing with enthusiasm. They played with energy and enthusiasm until it became obvious in the last 3-4 minutes that the battle was lost.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
This. There are maybe 10-20(if that) Big men in every class that are "can't miss" recruits. Fact of the matter is we have NEVER landed those guys.
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eric williams, mc d all american says "hi." however, he has not needed to bring in a "can't miss" big man. he just needed to bring in one with the tools and potential to grow into a solid player (like visser). he's had 4 years.

he squandered most of his recruiting classes and by taking the huge sophomore class placed wake in a situation where it could fall into the abyss (again) after they leave.
 
Bz's teams have always rebounded poorly over the entire course of the last decade. There is more to us being the worst rebounding team in ACC play than just the recruiting. The blame should be shared between recruiting and the coaching of the players that we do have.

Don't be surprised if we get a new coach in here if our rebounding metrics improve next year with the same Devin/Cav/Moto front court.
 
Can anyone name a single college coach that had his first real success at age 62? What's most puzzling to me about this disaster is that Ron went all in on a long shot, and that even if Bzz was successful, there's no upside, because he'd be retiring in a couple of years anyway.
 
When Boeheim started at Syracuse, he was just coaching basketball to put himself through veterinary school. He didn't dream about Carmelo Anthony, he dreamt about constipated zebras and shit like that. And now, 38 years and a couple of wives later, he's 20-0. What does that tell you? Well, I'll tell you what it tells you. It tells you that no matter who you are, you can become a legend if you stick around for 38 years. After all, most of us will be dead in 38 years and the rest of us will have computers installed in our eyeballs. So, let's all agree to back off Buzz and check back in in 2052. We'll probably have some machine-men players by then, and I have a feeling that Buzz is gonna know how to recruit and motivate machine-men better than just about anyone. Cool off, stick your dicks in your freezer, we got all the time in the world, guys.
 
91deac said:
Agree mostly, but here are a couple related points:

1. Just the nature of this large Soph class means they will improve over the next couple of years as they become juniors and seniors.

2. RW's stated goal is historically competitive and defined it as 'players that respresented Wake well on and off the court, defended its home court well and occassionally beat the top teams in the league'.

Buzz is showing improvement and with such a low bar, I am worried about RW doubling down with an extension.

IMO, until the goal for the basketball changes to 'Winning the Right Way', instead of 'Doing things the Right Way, while being Historically Competitive' (with or without Buzz), WF basketball will remain an after-thought to me.
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Well, I think that's the biggest problem, at the top with Wellman. This crap about not wanting to take "one and dones" and all the "doing the thing the right way" garbage is going to hold us back. Now, I'm not saying we start letting guys that can't read into Wake or anything like that, but as Skip used to say, you've got to have some NBA caliber players on your team to compete at the top in college basketball (especially the ACC). If a player comes in that qualifies to be a Wake and he is good enough to go pro after a year or 2, who cares? Would anybody argue that Wake Forest wasn't a lot better off having CP3 for 2 years, as opposed to not having him at all? Were Jeff Teague and James Johnson such bad citizens that it somehow tarnished Wake Forest because they wore a Wake uniform for 2 years? Did Aminu do something bad that I don't know about, because he seemed like a good enough representative for 2 years at Wake Forest to me? I don't know where some of the this stuff comes from, heck sometimes I wonder if it's coming from Hatch wanting to keep Wake revenue sports down since his beloved Irish are in the conference.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
I'm simply standing by the point that IMO it's hard to place 100% of the shitty situation we're in on him. Just like most everyone else I do feel this will be his last season as it should be. Had we landed Haas and not been given the run around by him, we'd be in a different situation right now.
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okay, then place some other percentage on him and the rest on Wellman for hiring such a freaking loser.
 
deaconson said:
eric williams, mc d all american says "hi." however, he has not needed to bring in a "can't miss" big man. he just needed to bring in one with the tools and potential to grow into a solid player (like visser). he's had 4 years.

he squandered most of his recruiting classes and by taking the huge sophomore class placed wake in a situation where it could fall into the abyss (again) after they leave.
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Mcdonald's AA status and and 4 bucks will get you a Happy Meal sometimes. Eric Williams did not come in as a great big man and had to be developed.
 
ChrisPaul3 said:
When Boeheim started at Syracuse, he was just coaching basketball to put himself through veterinary school. He didn't dream about Carmelo Anthony, he dreamt about constipated zebras and shit like that. And now, 38 years and a couple of wives later, he's 20-0. What does that tell you? Well, I'll tell you what it tells you. It tells you that no matter who you are, you can become a legend if you stick around for 38 years. After all, most of us will be dead in 38 years and the rest of us will have computers installed in our eyeballs. So, let's all agree to back off Buzz and check back in in 2052. We'll probably have some machine-men players by then, and I have a feeling that Buzz is gonna know how to recruit and motivate machine-men better than just about anyone. Cool off, stick your dicks in your freezer, we got all the time in the world, guys.
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3:58 left in the game- the camera pans to show Boeheim's face while sitting on the bench coming off a dead ball lull. The dude was asleep. I kid you not. My wife and I both looked at each like 'WTF!?" If anyone has video I'd love to see it posted.
 
simosfrostyone said:
okay, then place some other percentage on him and the rest on Wellman for hiring such a freaking loser.
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Well when you're the head coach, you take 100 percent of the responsibility whether it's 100 percent your fault or not.
 
CHillDeac said:
3:58 left in the game- the camera pans to show Boeheim's face while sitting on the bench coming off a dead ball lull. The dude was asleep. I kid you not. My wife and I both looked at each like 'WTF!?" If anyone has video I'd love to see it posted.
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Exactly. The guy looks like a mean-spirited old dentist who runs through hygienists like their rolls of toilet paper because he keeps sexually harassing them. And you know who else looks like a dentist? The main man himself, Buzzy the Bumble Bee. We got this, man. Boeheimian Rhapsody.
 
ChrisPaul3 said:
Exactly. The guy looks like a mean-spirited old dentist who runs through hygienists like their rolls of toilet paper because he keeps sexually harassing them. And you know who else looks like a dentist? The main man himself, Buzzy the Bumble Bee. We got this, man. Boeheimian Rhapsody.
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Boeheim just comes across as a miserable human being, must be why Coach K likes him so much.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Mcdonald's AA status and and 4 bucks will get you a Happy Meal sometimes. Eric Williams did not come in as a great big man and had to be developed.
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9 pts 13 boards 2 assist in the mc d's aa game

20 mpg 9.3 pts 4.4 rbg 56% fg he also had poor free throw % his entire career. (duncan was a shade under 10 ppg and 10 rbg his freshman year.)

williams was a huge get at the time and he was about as "can't miss" a big man prospect as you can get.
 
ChrisPaul3 said:
Exactly. The guy looks like a mean-spirited old dentist who runs through hygienists like their rolls of toilet paper because he keeps sexually harassing them. And you know who else looks like a dentist? The main man himself, Buzzy the Bumble Bee. We got this, man. Boeheimian Rhapsody.
Click to expand...

buzz puts us all to sleep
 
mebanedeac said:
We have substantially improved in terms of the half-court offense and in terms of defense. That is coaching and players doing what they are taught to do.

We are weak where the players themselves are lacking either in size and strength or in skill, particularly shooting the ball. Coaches design plays to get players in position to score or to defend; but they cannot actually shoot the ball or move their feet or put their bodies on the opposition to block out. The players must do that.

The staff have these guys in the right positions for the most part. Perhaps the staff could do better in teaching guys to shoot the ball. Perhaps they can improve their vertical and make them stronger to defend the interior and to rebound. But it is wrong to say it is all the players. We are running plays better than we have in many years and we are defending cuts off screens better than we were a month ago. That is coaching.

We are not recruiting better however, as has been pointed out. That MUST change.

BTW, it is not accurate to say that the staff doesn't have these guys playing with enthusiasm. They played with energy and enthusiasm until it became obvious in the last 3-4 minutes that the battle was lost.
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Improved from what? Bzz's disgraceful first few years? That is not improvement for Wake. Our record is worse, our defense is worse, our offense is worse, we have less talent, and we play with less enthusiasm than when Dino was here. In what world is that improvement? That isn't improvement, that is someone fucking you in the ass and telling you that you should enjoy it.
 
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