Should Convicted Felons Be Allowed to Vote?

[MHBDemon]

You are objecting to the interstate nature of the transfer? What difference does it make?

Thanks for proving my point. Once you’ve dehumanized people putting them in cages, what’s the difference in putting them in cages hundreds/thousands of miles from their home/family?

Take Hawaii for example. Native Hawaiians are roughly 20% of the population but make up 40% or more of the incarcerated population. Do you see any issue with sending native Hawaiians to mainland private prisons?

 

[Wakeforest22890]

If the argument is that felons should have their rights restored because they have repaid their debt to society then I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask them to repay their debt to society.

That being said, there should be reasonable alternatives and payment plans available that allow them to work towards that restitution while still being able to vote.

If they're going to literally have to repay their debt then they should be paid minimum wage for the work they do. To have them perform work for less than the minimum wage - as PH points out - and then ask them to literally repay costs strikes me as particularly excessive.

 

[PhDeac]

If they're going to literally have to repay their debt then they should be paid minimum wage for the work they do. To have them perform work for less than the minimum wage - as PH points out - and then ask them to literally repay costs strikes me as particularly excessive.

Americans are used to treating criminals like shit, not like fellow Americans who made a mistake, are being punished, and will return to living their lives among us. That's why we root for them to get raped, fantasize about the cruelty they experience, and watch TV shows that dramatize the prison experience. Makes it harder to view them as real people with families who love and care about them.

 

[DeaconCav06]

Fines and Court Costs are part of the sentence. That’s the debt to society. If you want to legislate those things away and provide independent funding for the court system you’re free to do that.

I never said they should pay for room and board and medical treatment. That’s part of the justification paying them minimum wage.

 

[Biff Tannen]

When I get a speeding ticket, I pay the fine, but fuck those court costs !

 

[ImTheCaptain]

i only pay the court costs

fines are theft

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Fines and Court Costs are part of the sentence. That’s the debt to society. If you want to legislate those things away and provide independent funding for the court system you’re free to do that.

I never said they should pay for room and board and medical treatment. That’s part of the justification paying them minimum wage.

Ah I misunderstood. I agree.

 

[tiltdeac]

Does seem a little weird if there are 2 people who commit the same crime, serve their time, and one gets to vote after and the other doesn't because one of them was rich to start with.

 

[RJKarl]

Does seem a little weird if there are 2 people who commit the same crime, serve their time, and one gets to vote after and the other doesn't because one of them was rich to start with.

Excellent point...

If companies charge $775/day to guard and "take care of" kids at the border, how much would felons be charged? Minimum wage at prison jobs won't exactly pay enough.

 

[PhDeac]

Does seem a little weird if there are 2 people who commit the same crime, serve their time, and one gets to vote after and the other doesn't because one of them was rich to start with.

Thus the criticism that it’s a poll tax.

 

[DeaconCav06]

Excellent point...

If companies charge $775/day to guard and "take care of" kids at the border, how much would felons be charged? Minimum wage at prison jobs won't exactly pay enough.

Nobody is saying that’s part of the debt...

 

[Demonwolverine]

You guys forget that all Republicans are angels. They don't get arrested. They don't get pregnant by accident. And they all pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. So why have laws that condone anything else?

 

[PhDeac]

What was the justification?

 

[Gooner]

Fines and Court Costs are part of the sentence. That’s the debt to society. If you want to legislate those things away and provide independent funding for the court system you’re free to do that.

I never said they should pay for room and board and medical treatment. That’s part of the justification paying them minimum wage.

Yes but fines and court costs are many times incredibly disproportionate to the point of being punitive. And in many states, including NC, assess these excessive costs even when the defendant has qualified as indigent by the letter of the applicable statutes. So yes, fines and costs are parts of the sentence, but they are given without regard to laws and rules governing them and then used to further incarcerate poor Americans. If they are then required to be paid by formerly convicted felons after their sentence, when it’s nearly impossible to find a job with enough extra income to do so, means that they literally will never be able to vote again.

Sources: I wrote a paper on this exact topic last fall.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

The justification is that the Kansas prisons are overcrowded and they have nowhere else to send prisoners. Of course the obvious answer would be to decriminalize marijuana and let people out of prison serving time for petty drug offenses, but they appear to be selecting the alternative of sending individuals to a private prison who is currently the target of a class action lawsuit alleging unsanitary and cruel conditions at their prisons.

 

[Gooner]

I’m in favor of decriminalization of weed. Make it legal, let anyone who is in on a weed charge out, wipe the slate clean, and restore all rights.

Yes, we will be letting out some people who did way worse than weed, but that’s a harm I’m personally willing to accept.

Yes, this 100%

 

[WFFaithful]

All else being equal, I’d prefer state prison systems keep prisoners close to their families. But I’m not going to get worked up about some KS prisoners being shipped off to AZ unless you explain why KS’s justification is insufficient to override the prisoner’s interest.

Fuck over some vulnerable people to save a few bucks and help out a political donor. What's the big deal?

 

[DeaconCav06]

Yes but fines and court costs are many times incredibly disproportionate to the point of being punitive. And in many states, including NC, assess these excessive costs even when the defendant has qualified as indigent by the letter of the applicable statutes. So yes, fines and costs are parts of the sentence, but they are given without regard to laws and rules governing them and then used to further incarcerate poor Americans. If they are then required to be paid by formerly convicted felons after their sentence, when it’s nearly impossible to find a job with enough extra income to do so, means that they literally will never be able to vote again.

Sources: I wrote a paper on this exact topic last fall.

Of course fines are punitive.

 

[Gooner]

Of course fines are punitive.

Well duh, but that’s not what I meant. Courts are fining people for not paying court costs or previous fines even when declared indigent and in some cases, by law, not required to pay. Then those people are jailed for lack of payment and the cycle perpetuates when it never should have started in the first place.