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Specific problems with specific welfare programs and how to fix them

What is analogous to digging ditches in social work? Working directly with families? That's the part that requires training.
 
PhDeac said:
What is analogous to digging ditches in social work? Working directly with families? That's the part that requires training.
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There is plenty of work that is analogous to digging ditches. Go repair houses, clean up public areas, volunteer to monitor study halls. Too many possible areas to name. With proper supervision just about anyone could perform these tasks.

We have schools that are falling in, public housing systems that are disintegrating from the inside out. Put roofs on people's houses who need roofs. Etc.... Social work is labor more than anything else.
 
The work on the ground is the stuff you really need experience and training for...

I guess you could have people processing paperwork and doing data entry, but the field work is really what you need training for. And we don't have enough money to pay enough people to train for that work to the extent that you and jhmd want them to.
 
Wrangor said:
There is plenty of work that is analogous to digging ditches. Go repair houses, clean up public areas, volunteer to monitor study halls. Too many possible areas to name. With proper supervision just about anyone could perform these tasks.

We have schools that are falling in, public housing systems that are disintegrating from the inside out. Put roofs on people's houses who need roofs. Etc.... Social work is labor more than anything else.
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Wait, what? Are you talking about social work when you say "Go repair houses, clean up public areas, volunteer to monitor study halls.... Put roofs on people's houses who need roofs."
 
Wrangor, all that stuff isn't social work.
 
PhDeac said:
Wrangor, all that stuff isn't social work.
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How would you define people who help clean up a community? I would have always defined them as social workers. I understand if you go get a degree in social work you are more akin to a therapist but for example: What field would you call someone who comes into town and starts a tutoring center (or someone who helps out at that tutoring center). Or someone. Who starts a free daycare so single mothers can work and provide for their family? I define those people as social workers. They work for the benefit of society.

Whatever you want to define people whose "product" is the betterment of society by any means necessary. We need more if them, and it doesn't necessarily take a college degree to be effective. That is my point.
 
Wrangor said:
How would you define people who help clean up a community? I would have always defined them as social workers. I understand if you go get a degree in social work you are more akin to a therapist but for example: What field would you call someone who comes into town and starts a tutoring center (or someone who helps out at that tutoring center). Or someone. Who starts a free daycare so single mothers can work and provide for their family? I define those people as social workers. They work for the benefit of society.

Whatever you want to define people whose "product" is the betterment of society by any means necessary. We need more if them, and it doesn't necessarily take a college degree to be effective. That is my point.
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.... That is not generally what people are talking about when they say "social worker." I would say the first person works in the field of education (and I'd call them an educator), and the second person works in childcare/daycare.
 
I thought we were talking about creating more bureaucracy and having investigators for case work. Am I confusing wrangor and JHMD? Which one is for the totalitarian notion of hiring more workers to oversee the most minute details of people on welfare to ensure they remain qualified to receive aid?
 
Wrangor said:
How would you define people who help clean up a community? I would have always defined them as social workers. I understand if you go get a degree in social work you are more akin to a therapist but for example: What field would you call someone who comes into town and starts a tutoring center (or someone who helps out at that tutoring center). Or someone. Who starts a free daycare so single mothers can work and provide for their family? I define those people as social workers. They work for the benefit of society.

Whatever you want to define people whose "product" is the betterment of society by any means necessary. We need more if them, and it doesn't necessarily take a college degree to be effective. That is my point.
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Social work and case management is not that.
 
Man I always thought people getting a masters in social work were just learning to wipe babies asses. Who knew they were learning how to do case work?
 
Well the fact that Wrangor doesn't know what social work is kind of explains where this post came from, I guess.

Wrangor said:
Seriously? Managing a case, having responsibilities, working with other people, time management, the inevitable paperwork and numbers work the evolves from a normal work schedule .... There are plenty of job skills to be learned by being a case worker. Stop being such a jerk. You don't have to be a software engineer to gain usable skills. Just the act of waking up at 6am and going to work is a usable skill.
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Wrangor said:
How would you define people who help clean up a community? I would have always defined them as social workers. I understand if you go get a degree in social work you are more akin to a therapist but for example: What field would you call someone who comes into town and starts a tutoring center (or someone who helps out at that tutoring center). Or someone. Who starts a free daycare so single mothers can work and provide for their family? I define those people as social workers. They work for the benefit of society.

Whatever you want to define people whose "product" is the betterment of society by any means necessary. We need more if them, and it doesn't necessarily take a college degree to be effective. That is my point.
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"Social Worker" is actually a legally protected title in a lot of states. So this post is kind of like saying "What would you call someone who did any work to try to make people healthier? I'd call them a Doctor"
 
Wrangor, you want government to create jobs for poor people?
 
PhDeac said:
Wrangor, you want government to create jobs for poor people?
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Yes. Don't always assume so much.

Despite my clear miscommunication (and error) on my intentions when using the word social work, I don't think it is a bad idea. Employ people to revitalize their own community. Would give ownership, job training, self pride, and in general would be a win for the community and the individuals. It would cost more, but it would also introduce accountability. Give people a certain time period where they have a cushion to get back on their feet. After that require 20 hours a week of investment into the community in order to continue to receive aid from the government. Lord knows we have plenty of work that needs to be done, and few people to do it. Seems like a perfect fit for everyone involved.
 
Wrangor said:
Yes. Don't always assume so much.

Despite my clear miscommunication (and error) on my intentions when using the word social work, I don't think it is a bad idea. Employ people to revitalize their own community. Would give ownership, job training, self pride, and in general would be a win for the community and the individuals. It would cost more, but it would also introduce accountability. Give people a certain time period where they have a cushion to get back on their feet. After that require 20 hours a week of investment into the community in order to continue to receive aid from the government. Lord knows we have plenty of work that needs to be done, and few people to do it. Seems like a perfect fit for everyone involved.
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I think you could accomplish the same work, for the same money, and get a much better result for the participants, if you just called it a "job" instead "work to receive aid". I just think there is a vast difference psychologically in the impact on the recipient between getting a job and being required to do work to get aid.
 
I think that's a fine idea. I've made the same point on here for years as an alternative to our unemployment system.
 
Deacon923 said:
I think you could accomplish the same work, for the same money, and get a much better result for the participants, if you just called it a "job" instead "work to receive aid". I just think there is a vast difference psychologically in the impact on the recipient between getting a job and being required to do work to get aid.
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You mean similar to the difference in views out there between unemployment (distinguished quite clearly by the Supreme Court as NOT welfare) and other forms of welfare or "social giving" by the government? When in reality anybody who receives SS, unemployment, or what is traditional called "welfare" is in fact receiving benefits from the government despite many people believing that unemployment is not welfare?
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
You mean similar to the difference in views out there between unemployment (distinguished quite clearly by the Supreme Court as NOT welfare) and other forms of welfare or "social giving" by the government? When in reality anybody who receives SS, unemployment, or what is traditional called "welfare" is in fact receiving benefits from the government despite many people believing that unemployment is not welfare?
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I am not sure of the relationship between my post and this post, actually. I just think that giving a person an actual JOB is much more uplifting, and will have a better long-term impact on their attitudes and contribution to society, than telling a person "you're entitled to help from the government but we're going to make you do work to get it (unless you can come up with an excuse)".

I bet a lot of people on these boards had one or more grandparents that were employed by the government during the Depression. DODO aside, does anyone really question that these programs had an overall positive impact on the country? Does anyone really think that in a time of over 10% real unemployment and record low interest rates, it would be a bad idea for the government to hire some people to fix up some of our crumbling infrastructure? Even if it (*gasp*) increases the deficit?
 
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