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Steve Forbes credibility watch

Forbes got out coached today. Basically said so himself in the postgame saying Bennet is the best coach in the ACC and top 5 in the country which he is. Switch coaches today and Wake coached by Bennet wins. Nobody is better at situational basketball than Bennet. Since his loss to us he is 9-1, since our win over UVA we are 3-5 (guessing here). They are doing more w less and a solid 3rd in the conference And in the dance. We are doing less w more and in great danger of missing the dance.

For all of those who have said for the past 5 games each are a must win, I now believe Tuesday night is just that
 
IAppreciateIt said:
i don’t totally get the takes about how this team is super talented and underachieving. i don’t see it. sallis is the only guy on the roster who looks like an nba player, but more than that we just don’t have a point guard.

i think that’s what happens when you rely so much on the transfer portal, it’s hard to put together a cohesive team because there’s just not a big pool to choose from.

this year we don’t have a point guard

last year, we didn’t have a competent big man

two years ago, we didn’t have anyone who could rebound and barely anyone who could dribble.

every team has strengths and weaknesses, but our teams have such gigantic gaps talent-wise.

easier said than done, but we really need better high school recruiting so transfers can be a supplement not the foundation for our teams.
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Meh, you’re not wrong about a true PG, but if you switch our roster and UVAs, Bennett wins that game by 20 (as Wake did at home).

Greenberg and others have said Wake has the best or most talented starting 5 in the ACC.
 
Forbes should get one more year and the only metric that matters is winning enough to make the tournament. If the team finishes strong this year and makes the dance then this is a different discussion. Unfortunately this coach is not showing any signs of doing the things required to win on the road against good teams. The only reason I support one more year is the position this program was in when Forbes arrived. He has brought us a long way since the last 2 idiots.

However, I fear Forbes has hit his ceiling. Forbes has proven to be a very good offensive coach but below average in many areas required to win big road games. Reid took 2 three’s yesterday in a game where possessions were at a premium. Wasted possessions. Apparently the last play was designed to go to Sallis. It was not executed. All symptoms of the lack of discipline on this team. Overall this team seems mentally weak and loses their composure on the road. These are things an elite coach can influence. Then throw in several games with ridiculously high turnovers, defensive lapses, and poor shot selection and a NCAA talented teams lands squarely on the bubble. I like Forbes and hope he gets us to the dance…he has now used up all of his mulligans. Time to win or it is on to baseball.
 
This team is top 40 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. There is plenty of talent and overall they play well on offense and defense. The main problem is the same players (Cam, Boopie, and to a lesser extent Efton with his constant foul trouble) melting down and making the same terrible mistakes in important stretches (second halves on the road) or specific situations.

@UGA, LSU, @FSU, @NCSU, @Pitt, @UVA could have all been wins and many of them should have been, but instead they are all losses due to the same story over and over. Guards who have talent playing wildly out of control, turning the ball over, and taking terrible shots.
 
KingCurtis said:
This team is top 40 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. There is plenty of talent and overall they play well on offense and defense. The main problem is the same players (Cam, Boopie, and to a lesser extent Efton with his constant foul trouble) melting down and making the same terrible mistakes in important stretches (second halves on the road) or specific situations.

@UGA, LSU, @FSU, @NCSU, @Pitt, @UVA could have all been wins and many of them should have been, but instead they are all losses due to the same story over and over. Guards who have talent playing wildly out of control, turning the ball over, and taking terrible shots.
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And where does that buck stop?
 
We need money. We can’t be paying buyouts for Manning and Forbes.

The fan base demanded we hire Forbes and extend him. Currie understandably as a new AD followed the overwhelming whim of the alums. The alums loved the Joel and loved Forbes.

While I disagreed with those decisions, now we are stuck with them for awhile. We can’t just jump ship. We’ll be stuck with no money to hire the next coach and for NIL. GT got whipsawed into this double buyout disaster and they are still paying the price.

Make better decisions in 4 years when given another chance.
 
IAppreciateIt said:
i don’t totally get the takes about how this team is super talented and underachieving. i don’t see it. sallis is the only guy on the roster who looks like an nba player, but more than that we just don’t have a point guard.

i think that’s what happens when you rely so much on the transfer portal, it’s hard to put together a cohesive team because there’s just not a big pool to choose from.

this year we don’t have a point guard

last year, we didn’t have a competent big man

two years ago, we didn’t have anyone who could rebound and barely anyone who could dribble.

every team has strengths and weaknesses, but our teams have such gigantic gaps talent-wise.

easier said than done, but we really need better high school recruiting so transfers can be a supplement not the foundation for our teams.
Click to expand...
Monsanto and Cam look like NBA players when healthy.

Boopie is our PG and I’m not giving up on him. He’s way above the Joe Dukes “we don’t have a PG” tier, right now he’s in the CMM “average ACC PG” tier. He’s shown the flashes to reach the next tier he just needs the consistency: Limit turnovers, take the high percentage shots, penetrate and dish, play intense defense.

Your last point is very true. PFred is an excellent foundational piece, we need more foundational pieces like PFred to build around.
 
Yeah, idk how long his contract is for but I’d bet he has another 3-4 years on it. Manning’s contract is a fucking disaster and albatross. I think Forbes will be given time.
 
freakadeac said:
Monsanto and Cam look like NBA players when healthy.

Boopie is our PG and I’m not giving up on him. He’s way above the Joe Dukes “we don’t have a PG” tier, right now he’s in the CMM “average ACC PG” tier. He’s shown the flashes to reach the next tier he just needs the consistency: Limit turnovers, take the high percentage shots, penetrate and dish, play intense defense.

Your last point is very true. PFred is an excellent foundational piece, we need more foundational pieces like PFred to build around.
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Cam, even when healthy, has looked like a very good pro overseas, never an NBA player.
 
Boopie is playing his first year of high major basketball. I’m excited to see what he looks like next season.

Forbes will bring in another scorer to replace Sallis since we can’t really rely on Juke as a freshman to fill that role.

With another primary scorer + Juke and the returning guys, I’m confident we’re a better team next season.

Also, it’s not Forbes fault that the perception of the ACC is so bad. He’s got us in 4th place. That used to be a lock.
 
birdman said:
I fucking hate this thread.
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Same. I am all in on Forbes. He has won championships at his other head coaching stops, he is fantastic at recruiting the portal, people throughout college basketball speak highly of him, when you listen to him speak it is clear he knows the game really well and he always has a plan, and most importantly, he is winning and building a program.

You don't fire a coach that is building and moving in the right direction. There are going to be bumps in the road, but if the trajectory is in the right direction, firing the coach would be a huge mistake. We started the year at #73 in Kenpom and we are now up to #26. This is the highest we have been ranked in the computer rankings in 14 years. We're on the bubble as a program, and very close, as a program, to being a consistent tournament team. If you have a good college coach, support him/her, because that is way more important than any other factor (history, NIL, etc.). Learn the important lessons from Tom Walter and Jen Hoover.
 
freakadeac said:
Monsanto and Cam look like NBA players when healthy.

Boopie is our PG and I’m not giving up on him. He’s way above the Joe Dukes “we don’t have a PG” tier, right now he’s in the CMM “average ACC PG” tier. He’s shown the flashes to reach the next tier he just needs the consistency: Limit turnovers, take the high percentage shots, penetrate and dish, play intense defense.

Your last point is very true. PFred is an excellent foundational piece, we need more foundational pieces like PFred to build around.
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Boopie is a decent player because he has good scoring ability, but he’s just not a point guard. We’ve been seeing Sallis play more PG and I think / hope that will continue.

Our assist rate being 309th in the country is the major flaw in our offense.
 
Rafi said:
Same. I am all in on Forbes. He has won championships at his other head coaching stops, he is fantastic at recruiting the portal, people throughout college basketball speak highly of him, when you listen to him speak it is clear he knows the game really well and he always has a plan, and most importantly, he is winning and building a program.

You don't fire a coach that is building and moving in the right direction. There are going to be bumps in the road, but if the trajectory is in the right direction, firing the coach would be a huge mistake. We started the year at #73 in Kenpom and we are now up to #26. This is the highest we have been ranked in the computer rankings in 14 years. We're on the bubble as a program, and very close, as a program, to being a consistent tournament team. If you have a good college coach, support him/her, because that is way more important than any other factor (history, NIL, etc.). Learn the important lessons from Tom Walter and Jen Hoover.
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As I've posted multiple times on this thread, Forbes needs to make the NCAA tournament this season or next or we need to move on. Can't seem to get an answer from the "all in" folks, but what is your criteria, if any? At some point, does "moving in the right direction" involve an NCAA tournament bid? How long would you give Forbes if there is no bid? 3 more years? 5 more years? Lifetime contract now? Would love for one of the "all in" folks to respond.
Of course, the team could still win out this season and make the tournament and this discussion (at least for me) becomes moot.
 
oldschooldeac said:
As I've posted multiple times on this thread, Forbes needs to make the NCAA tournament this season or next or we need to move on. Can't seem to get an answer from the "all in" folks, but what is your criteria, if any? At some point, does "moving in the right direction" involve an NCAA tournament bid? How long would you give Forbes if there is no bid? 3 more years? 5 more years? Lifetime contract now? Would love for one of the "all in" folks to respond.
Of course, the team could still win out this season and make the tournament and this discussion (at least for me) becomes moot.
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you seem very hung up on this.

Rafi has already answered this:

You don't fire a coach that is building and moving in the right direction.
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If Forbes is building and moving in the right direction, and fails to reach the NCAA tournament, you don't give up on him. Obviously you reach a point where the "right direction" most likely involves a tournament bid. No one here - no one - is advocating for a lifetime contract.
 
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