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Steve Forbes credibility watch

Let's get real here. Sallis had one field goal in the 2nd half. That's why we lost. It's one thing for Boopie and Cam to pick up a little slack when he has an off game, but if he's going to totally disappear we're not beating anyone decent. And that makes Boopie and Cam have to force things and then everyone will bitch about them.
 
DCDeac said:
Let's get real here. Sallis had one field goal in the 2nd half. That's why we lost. It's one thing for Boopie and Cam to pick up a little slack when he has an off game, but if he's going to totally disappear we're not beating anyone decent. And that makes Boopie and Cam have to force things and then everyone will bitch about them.
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Forbes could draw up plays. Insist on feeding the post. Demand more ball movement and less out of control dribbling. Call timeouts. You know, coach.

ETA: in the last several minutes you could see that we were running different sets, playing with more of a purpose, despite it not working out. I have no clue how Forbes allowed the dogshit we watched occur for the first 15 min of the 2nd half.
 
EagleDeac said:
Disagree. It was a great play. Wide open shot. I don’t care what kind of night he was having, I’m taking that play every time.
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This is where reasonable people can disagree.

On Eagle's side, yeah, going to your best scorer and getting him that open look is a great call. In fact, it could be argued that looking at Sallis in the huddle and saying, "forget what has happened, we're going to you know and I trust YOU to hit that shot" could result in a great uplift. It's a fair argument and I won't disagree.

But, IMO, Sallis was clearly just off tonight.
 
Not just off. Missing shots is one thing. Dude looked like he was allergic to the ball tonight. So weird to see a guy be scared of getting involved... but he's still probably building that confidence back, and still learning how to be the guy. Might as well just come back next year.
 
oldschooldeac said:
Awesome! With that established track record, certainly no need to win any more road games. Tonight was completely unimportant. We can just refer the committee back to two years ago if they have any questions about our road prowess.
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Ha, this is pretty good. I was trying to point out that this is more of an issue with this specific team, as opposed to a Forbes issue recurring across seasons.
 
tigerswood said:
Forbes could draw up plays. Insist on feeding the post. Demand more ball movement and less out of control dribbling. Call timeouts. You know, coach.
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A lack of open shots was not our problem tonight. Even with the late fouls due to us being down to close, Notre Dame scored fewer points in the 2nd half than they did in the first. And we were leading at the half. We scored fewer points on better looks in the 2nd. No coach would look at the shots they got and the shots we got and think this was a close game.

I love me some Sallis and he has been incredible this year for us. He may go on to do great things as we move forward. But the difference between us and UNC is that in a huge road game we had to have that was a single possession game late, he disappeared for 7 points total. RJ Davis, across the entire ACC season home and away, has at least doubled that output in EVERY SINGLE GAME except their 10 point at UVA where he had 12 points.

And of course RJ isn't an NBA exit threat but we're gonna lose Sallis after this year.
 
Not Forbes Out, but another big step in that direction for me.
 
DCDeac said:
A lack of open shots was not our problem tonight. Even with the late fouls due to us being down to close, Notre Dame scored fewer points in the 2nd half than they did in the first. And we were leading at the half. We scored fewer points on better looks in the 2nd. No coach would look at the shots they got and the shots we got and think this was a close game.

I love me some Sallis and he has been incredible this year for us. He may go on to do great things as we move forward. But the difference between us and UNC is that in a huge road game we had to have that was a single possession game late, he disappeared for 7 points total. RJ Davis, across the entire ACC season home and away, has at least doubled that output in EVERY SINGLE GAME except their 10 point at UVA where he had 12 points.

And of course RJ isn't an NBA exit threat but we're gonna lose Sallis after this year.
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We must have watched different games. Sure we missed some shots, but I thought ND had far better 2nd half looks. Multiple people texted me saying we were lucky not to be down 10+ when they kept bricking wide open shots after we’d rush a 3 or turn it over.
 
tigerswood said:
We must have watched different games. Sure we missed some shots, but I thought ND had far better 2nd half looks. Multiple people texted me saying we were lucky not to be down 10+ when they kept bricking wide open shots after we’d rush a 3 or turn it over.
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I agree with this.
 
Forbes acknowledges that his style is all about letting players play. But it’s very clear that his players are very comfortable at the Joel and their buttholes tighten up on the road. He needs to either rein them in or adjust the overall style on the road. Play more physical. Throw more bodies out there. Something.
 
PhDeac said:
Forbes acknowledges that his style is all about letting players play. But it’s very clear that his players are very comfortable at the Joel and their buttholes tighten up on the road. He needs to either rein them in or adjust the overall style on the road. Play more physical. Throw more bodies out there. Something.
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Adam Smith was not a good basketball coach.
 
tigerswood said:
We must have watched different games. Sure we missed some shots, but I thought ND had far better 2nd half looks. Multiple people texted me saying we were lucky not to be down 10+ when they kept bricking wide open shots after we’d rush a 3 or turn it over.
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I absolutely said multiple times we were lucky not to be down 10 when both teams missed a billion shots in a row in the heart of the 2nd half. That doens't mean our looks weren't good ones.

Can you have looks better than Parker's threes in the 2nd half? Monsanto's? Carr missed from a foot. Sallis with the wide open perfect out-of-bounds play at the end? Boopie missed from 2 feet, 10 feet, everywhere.

How many shots did Burton hit getting doubled, falling down, sideways, bailed out on fouls for 11 free throws and hit them all. How about the bucket from whatever oaf they had against Reid where he just threw it up backwards and it somehow slammed against the rim, then backboard, then rim and dropped?

I'd agree starting at about the 4 minute mark when it was clear Sallis was a no-show for this game and Boopie/Cam/Carr took turns fucking up that it turned bad. But Notre Dame is not a good shooting team. Giving their worst shooters mildly contested 3's instead of letting Burton and Shrewsbury shoot from outside is fine. Davis/Booth/Zona/Imes aren't beating you from 3 shooting 20%. If Burton score 7 points hiding in the corner is anyone talking about Forbes coaching?

The better players played shitty tonight end of story. They do that consistently away from home and need to figure it out. Not buying the magical x's and o's blame though.
 
Can’t wait for this thread to herald Forbes as the second coming come Selection Sunday
 
The scary thing is that 2022 and this year could be our ceiling with Forbes. Great talent, couple big wins, bubble team, but too much awful execution in critical stretches.

It’s much more fun than the lost years, but also more frustrating because a better in-game coach could contend for conference titles and make serious noise in the tourney with this talent level.
 
Not sure if this is the right place for these, but just to add some perspective of what this man is dealing with beyond basketball and an encouraging update:

www.cbssports.com

Court Report: Wake Forest and coach Steve Forbes have been overcoming so much more than fans on the floor

Matt Norlander's weekly college hoops notebook also pays homage to the godfather of all notebook-style columns: Peter King
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com

sethdavis.substack.com

Wake Forest Basketball Coach Steve Forbes: ‘Resilience, Toughness. Nobody Exemplifies That More Than My Wife’

He was half a world away when Forbes got shocking news from his daughter: "Mom's had a stroke." Now he is coaching her through the fight of their lives.
sethdavis.substack.com sethdavis.substack.com

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
 
tigerswood said:
The scary thing is that 2022 and this year could be our ceiling with Forbes. Great talent, couple big wins, bubble team, but too much awful execution in critical stretches.

It’s much more fun than the lost years, but also more frustrating because a better in-game coach could contend for conference titles and make serious noise in the tourney with this talent level.
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I’m not ready to say that his ceiling is the first year that a roster is together. I keep coming back to the fact that there has been a lot of roster churn the last three years, but next year we should return most of our core. I think that additional time and experience playing together will be a big benefit for these road games.
 
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