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Sutton Sports Performance Center Catches Fire At Wake Forest University

I know you've PM'd me with business solicitations, which I hope is against the TOS.
 
buckets said:
There's a spectrum between firing her immediately and accepting her lame apology

If she's done so much great stuff for the diversity of Wake Forest, then lets talk about it

You guys are thinking about this only from her perspective and how unfair it is to poor ole Martha. Imagine you're a black wake student or alum, this comes out, and after a quick stock written apology everyone moves on. Does that seem fair? Is that a fair response to our black students and alums, who I'm sure at one point or another felt uncomfortable at Wake because of this old South bullshit we STILL dance around and don't really do anything about? When a pic of our longtime dean of admissions comes out gleefully posing in front of a confederate flag, wake takes the path of least resistance and tries to move on as quickly and as quietly as possible? What comfort does that actually give you that anything has changed?

All you older guys are talking about what the flag meant to you and how you may have misinterpreted it and how you're different and how you think Martha is ok to stay as Dean. It's not about you or me, it's about being accountable and apologetic to the people in our Wake Forest family that were hurt and are still being hurt by this nonsense. While it may be unfair to dig up 40 year old pictures, its even more unfair that it's taken 40 years to call this out as bullshit. I'm not calling for her immediate termination, but I am calling for some open dialogue and evidence that Wake is taking this seriously and listening to those that need an explanation the most.
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Think this is a good post, but even this gets at the issue for students and faculty of color at Wake. It's consistently their burden to self-report issues at Wake, and then they're expected to have a dialogue or open communication, but the people who host those are not people in administrative power sufficient to enact change. To borrow from a post I saw about a panel held before this came out about Martha Allman:

On "Creating Inclusive Environments at Wake Forest University." The panel came together very quickly, so I understand that many didn't know about it or couldn't make it. But that's its own symptom.

Students of color know things about institutional power. They have "epistemic privilege" as Paula Moya puts it, a field knowledge derived from experience. Below are not necessarily my own views, but a paraphrase of the most consistently voiced statements from students. Over 2.5 hours, here's what they said:

There is a legacy of racism across the university's history, and it continues into the present.

Students of color experience this racism as part of their every day lives on campus, and as part of an their engagement with the university as an institution. I'm saying this once, but it was really overwhelming to hear how many and how varied were the experiences described. And that was just in two hours--a small slice of a much larger whole of experiences.

The mechanisms for addressing racism on this campus are: reactive, ameliorative, full of holes (to be generous; designed to absorb and disappear student complaint, if I'm being less generous), and consistently put the burdens of remedy on the victims of racism (the burden of constantly reporting, the burden of constantly representing as part of "dialogues").

The university curates a certain kind of student experience which affirms the lifestyle of the relatively wealthy and elite.


Just from reading this thread it seems protecting power is more important to most alumni, especially alumni who look like and have experienced life like Martha Allman, than addressing what it's like to be a student today who looks different.
 
I think that's an overreading of what we have said. We should 100% ask our community to evolve in our thinking and try to break out of old mindsets, ESPECIALLY those of us who have benefited from our positions of privilege.
 
BobHWS said:
There needs to be a trial procedure set up so that the hidden racists on campus can be identified, prosecuted and banished.

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Bob's posts on this thread - like this one - when compared with his posts on the Jamill Jones thread, which were really jumping blindly to certain conclusions against Jones before allowing the facts to play out, are really not a good look.
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
No actually, you are full of fucking shit and have once again shown that you are one of the dumbest, head up your ass posters ever on the boards.

It is completely obvious however that you cannot wrap your pea brain around the concept of personal growth, since you have experienced none. Go look in the mirror, do some googling on personal hygiene, learn how to dress like a non-homeless adult, become gainfully employed, and then maybe you will have the standing to judge people for their actions of 40 years ago.

You simply cannot, cannot strictly apply the social mores of 40 years ago to today. This is the main reason why we shouldn't 'make america great again' because the 70s and all the decades before were shitty, people were shitty and clueless, no one was woke and no one cared either way.
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I think an additional point (that has been made by several posters) is that as recently as when I was in school (graduated in 2012) both KA and Kappa Sig still had race-related parties where confederate flags and/or chants were present. That's a systemic issue going well beyond the Allman picture from several decades ago. Also this isn't to say other frats weren't doing the same, but I personally was aware of KA and Kappa Sig having them.

And I'd be hard pressed to believe that the administration didn't know about these parties given that most on campus knew about them.
 
I hope I’m alive to see the day when the current generation of morons has their reputation or career destroyed because somebody not yet born is offended by something they’re doing today.
 
TownieDeac said:
Think this is a good post, but even this gets at the issue for students and faculty of color at Wake. It's consistently their burden to self-report issues at Wake, and then they're expected to have a dialogue or open communication, but the people who host those are not people in administrative power sufficient to enact change. To borrow from a post I saw about a panel held before this came out about Martha Allman:

On "Creating Inclusive Environments at Wake Forest University." The panel came together very quickly, so I understand that many didn't know about it or couldn't make it. But that's its own symptom.

Students of color know things about institutional power. They have "epistemic privilege" as Paula Moya puts it, a field knowledge derived from experience. Below are not necessarily my own views, but a paraphrase of the most consistently voiced statements from students. Over 2.5 hours, here's what they said:

There is a legacy of racism across the university's history, and it continues into the present.

Students of color experience this racism as part of their every day lives on campus, and as part of an their engagement with the university as an institution. I'm saying this once, but it was really overwhelming to hear how many and how varied were the experiences described. And that was just in two hours--a small slice of a much larger whole of experiences.

The mechanisms for addressing racism on this campus are: reactive, ameliorative, full of holes (to be generous; designed to absorb and disappear student complaint, if I'm being less generous), and consistently put the burdens of remedy on the victims of racism (the burden of constantly reporting, the burden of constantly representing as part of "dialogues").

The university curates a certain kind of student experience which affirms the lifestyle of the relatively wealthy and elite.


Just from reading this thread it seems protecting power is more important to most alumni, especially alumni who look like and have experienced life like Martha Allman, than addressing what it's like to be a student today who looks different.
Click to expand...

Ok great, but the mechanisms of addressing racism in society as a whole in these great United States of America are also reactive, ameliorative, and full of holes. It is a deeply ingrained and complex problem not just for fancy east coast universities. If there was a great way to fix it, it would be fixed. But we are 70 years post civil rights act and here we are.

I absolutely see the argument of perspective of institutional power as viewed by minority students or faculty, hence my prior comment that I think that a well funded institution that publishes these pictures in an official book with their brand and seal on it is much more troublesome than a dumb 19 yo standing next to a flag. The publishing condones it, institutionalizes it. That gives in Univ a much bigger black eye imho, one that they havent acknowledged.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
I hope I’m alive to see the day when the current generation of morons has their reputation or career destroyed because somebody not yet born is offended by something they’re doing today.
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I hope I'm dead when the Google Purges of 2064 occur.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I think an additional point (that has been made by several posters) is that as recently as when I was in school (graduated in 2012) both KA and Kappa Sig still had race-related parties where confederate flags and/or chants were present. That's a systemic issue going well beyond the Allman picture from several decades ago. Also this isn't to say other frats weren't doing the same, but I personally was aware of KA and Kappa Sig having them.

And I'd be hard pressed to believe that the administration didn't know about these parties given that most on campus knew about them.
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Let me address the geedy hearsay: I graduated in 2000 so I was there 96 to 00. I was a KA. I can tell you that we did not have race themed parties at this time. There definitely were also no confederate flags at parties. I can't speak to what happened after 00.
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
Let me address the geedy hearsay: I graduated in 2000 so I was there 96 to 00. I was a KA. I can tell you that we did not have race themed parties at this time. There definitely were also no confederate flags at parties.
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Well I guess the rap video parties started after you left then because those were definitely a KA thing when I was on campus.
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
Ok great, but the mechanisms of addressing racism in society as a whole in these great United States of America are also reactive, ameliorative, and full of holes. It is a deeply ingrained and complex problem not just for fancy east coast universities. If there was a great way to fix it, it would be fixed. But we are 70 years post civil rights act and here we are.

I absolutely see the argument of perspective of institutional power as viewed by minority students or faculty, hence my prior comment that I think that a well funded institution that publishes these pictures in an official book with their brand and seal on it is much more troublesome than a dumb 19 yo standing next to a flag. The publishing condones it, institutionalizes it. That gives in Univ a much bigger black eye imho, one that they havent acknowledged.
Click to expand...

Well that, and that they hired into the administration and promoted someone who they knew was the KA sweetheart (the University knows all of these things) and was in The Howler in said picture. The university has not only tacitly condoned the use of the confederate flag, for whatever reason, for decades after the civil rights movement, they've institutionalized its presence through the hiring of those who went to school when it was still being displayed. Oter graduates pursued jobs in medicine, law, finance, accounting, and whatever the fuck RJ does. So yeah, I'm agreeing with you.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
I hope I’m alive to see the day when the current generation of morons has their reputation or career destroyed because somebody not yet born is offended by something they’re doing today.
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I mean as far back as 1988, Wake's KA chapter voted to stop using the confederate flag and uniform as a symbol of their chapter and apologized for doing so - so it's not as if this is some sort of recent epiphany (even if the volume of complaints have increased recently).
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I mean as far back as 1988, Wake's KA chapter voted to stop using the confederate flag and uniform as a symbol of their chapter and apologized for doing so - so it's not as if this is some sort of recent epiphany (even if the volume of complaints have increased recently).
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Well I was there in 1988 and I never heard about that or noticed they had stopped wearing the uniforms at Old South. Flags mostly stayed in dorm rooms though.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I think an additional point (that has been made by several posters) is that as recently as when I was in school (graduated in 2012) both KA and Kappa Sig still had race-related parties where confederate flags and/or chants were present. That's a systemic issue going well beyond the Allman picture from several decades ago. Also this isn't to say other frats weren't doing the same, but I personally was aware of KA and Kappa Sig having them.

And I'd be hard pressed to believe that the administration didn't know about these parties given that most on campus knew about them.
Click to expand...

Wait, Kappa Sig did? I graduated in 2010 and those guys were like 75% northern. Pretty weird, if true.

Also, I attended the KA rap video party once or twice, and don't know how I feel about it. I guess it's racist/not PC to dress up as your favorite rap artist (I wore an RIP Biggie XXXL White T) these days? I don't remember any blackfacing, but perhaps there was.
 
Buttermaker said:
https://www.insidehighered.com/admi...-yearbooks-photos-linked-racism-and-found-its

"When Allman graduated from Wake Forest and became an admissions counselor, nonwhite enrollment was 6 percent. When she took over as admissions dean in 2001, the figure was 12 percent. By the fall of 2018, the figure was 30 percent."

30 percent nonwhite enrollment now? I find that somewhat hard to believe.
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Non-white enrollment has certainly increased. However First-Time Freshmen Black Enrollment:

Fall 2017: 7.0%
Fall 2016: 6.6%
Fall 2015: 6.4%
Fall 2014: 6.3%
Fall 2013: 6.1%
Fall 2012: 6.6%
Fall 2011: 6.8%
Fall 2010: 6.6%
Fall 2009: 9.7%
Fall 2008: 7.2%
Fall 2007: 6.4%
Fall 2006: 6.4%
Fall 2005: 7.9%
Fall 2004: 5.4%
Fall 2003: 6.0%

Data from WFU Fact Book
 
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