The Democratic Party Left Me Behind

[ImTheCaptain]

I never said that it had to be done quickly or without economic hardship to the middle class.

to be fair, that was MDMH's position

 

[PhDeac]

The DSA: the No Man's Sky of political movements

First ITC came for the socialists...

 

[Strickland33]

MHB still won't show how to change a $20T capitalist economy into pure socialism quickly and without costing the middle class.

How would you go about doing it RJ?

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

to be fair, that was MDMH's position

Oh do tell, what was my position?

 

[ImTheCaptain]

First ITC came for the socialists...

I mean, it's still an actual game.

 

[RJKarl]

How would you go about doing it RJ?

I wouldn't. A purely socialist economy won't work.

 

[MHBDemon]

I wouldn't. A purely socialist economy won't protect my economic privilege against the threat of racial and economic justice.

FIFY

 

[WFcatamount22]

Socialists should unequivocally reject this bullshit. It seeks to turn our current situation back into one that can be solved by Silicon Valley technocrats. This is why socialists are so skeptical of reforming capitalism. Peter Thiell is not your friend. Looking forward to hearing Elon Musk's ideas.

Im curious as to your thoughts on the desired end goal. Do you want total government control of production with forced equality of economic outcomes? Or is the end game a blend of open markets, and flexibility of financial outcomes just heavily regulated?

In 2018 when someone says their socialist what are you really meaning here?

 

[Strickland33]

I wouldn't. A purely socialist economy won't work.

Outside of having the word “socialist” in their name, is that what democratic socialists advocate for?

 

[ImTheCaptain]

Outside of having the word “socialist” in their name, is that what democratic socialists advocate for?

i dunno, you tell us. NPR did nab this quote:

"I think we just need to realize that the end goal is, ultimately, like social control of the means of production," said Joe Cernelli, a founding member of that West Virginia DSA chapter. "You know we don't just want to improve capitalism, we will ultimately want to get rid of it."

 

[Strickland33]

i dunno, you tell us. NPR did nab this quote:

You and RJ seem quite sure that you know what it entails and that it won’t work.

It shouldn’t be that hard to articulate what “it” is. I’m interested in what y’all actually think Democratic Socialism is.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

You and RJ seem quite sure that you know what it entails and that it won’t work.

It shouldn’t be that hard to articulate what “it” is. I’m interested in what y’all actually think Democratic Socialism is.

and im not sure because none of the proponents here has ever actually put forth anything resembling a coherent description. so for now, i'm going with the words (possibly out of context) of actual DSA members

 

[WFcatamount22]

You and RJ seem quite sure that you know what it entails and that it won’t work.

It shouldn’t be that hard to articulate what “it” is. I’m interested in what y’all actually think Democratic Socialism is.

Democratic socialism is a political philosophy that advocates political democracy alongside social ownership of the means of production. This is the wiki definition, some DSA members seem to think that what it is, and some don't. So it is hard to say, and no one here has clarified the issue.

 

[PhDeac]

Democratic socialism is a political philosophy that advocates political democracy alongside social ownership of the means of production. This is the wiki definition, some DSA members seem to think that what it is, and some don't. So it is hard to say, and no one here has clarified the issue.

Pretty sure that's the case for any political philosophy.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

"it's really easy to say it'll never work !"

"yeah, but we don't really know what it is you are saying will work. so maybe start there"

"it's not even worth debating b/c you're out of your mind"

"ok, good talk"

 

[RJKarl]

Outside of having the word “socialist” in their name, is that what democratic socialists advocate for?

The #1 priority is the immediate end of capitalism. This is impossible and would be horrible to try. Don't take this to mean I support how capitalism is implemented at this time, but it's impossible to end it in any short term and not destroy our economy.

 

[MHBDemon]

The #1 priority is the immediate end of capitalism.

link? Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?

 

[ImTheCaptain]

link? Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?

i dunno, you tell us. NPR did nab this quote:

"I think we just need to realize that the end goal is, ultimately, like social control of the means of production," said Joe Cernelli, a founding member of that West Virginia DSA chapter. "You know we don't just want to improve capitalism, we will ultimately want to get rid of it."

 

[MHBDemon]

"immediate end of capitalism"

"the end goal is, ultimately,..."

Yep, nothing different. Looks the same.

 

[WFcatamount22]

The problem with our current version of capitalism is that not everyone has the same availability to become economically successful. This is due to things like institutionalized racism, and corporations rigging the systems to prevent people from fair economic opportunities in a free market. The answer to that is to use the government to regulate the marketplace in order to ensure everyone regardless of creed, class, or color has equal opportunities to succeed in a capitalistic model.

What the government should not be used for is to create a system where the state is forcing economic justice, which is what seems to be the democratic socialist platform.

*** Edited as to not monger the fears