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The Democratic Party Left Me Behind

myDeaconmyhand said:
1. The southern strategy, and 2. how do you know what was "broadly popular" among poor white people before the civil rights movement?

You can say i'm just arguing to argue all you want, but i'm not going to let you or anyone else conflate poverty and racism. That's ignorant and classist. And Lazy.
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You've broadly said white people are racist and then use the southern strategy as an explanation for changing attitudes about entitlement.

I just made a factual statement.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/06/race-safety-net-welfare/529203/

AsesinoDeTortugas said:
There's a lot of social science studies that suggest the opposite, that all else being equal, whites in poverty will consider themselves better off than minorities in poverty and perceive any benefits for those impoverished minorities as a bad thing for them.
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Pretty much.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science...tment-motivates-opposition-to-welfare/562010/
 
That's some disengenious shit, PH. Systemic Anti-black racism clearly exists in a country founded and maintained by whites, whose economy was started with african slave labor with white slave owners. Why the fuck am I even telling you this? Of course you know this. I'm just really confounded as to how you're going to question my pointing out the fact that white people are racist against black people? As if that is in any way comparable to you conflating racism with poverty, like the goddamned pied piper of racists isnt President Donald Fucking Trump, and his racist demon spawn strategist isn't a rich Dukie prick. The people actively selling racism on the tv are in fact not poor at all.
 
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I don't know if I understand mdmh's argument, but I think the disagreement here is more nuanced. It's not that rural whites aren't racist. It's that the political narrative emphasizes that they are racist dumb rubes who are immutable. That narrative ignores who has the agency and political/economic power to propagandize and persuade white voters.

 
palmab03 said:
I have no idea what point you two are even arguing.
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Thankfully MHB does.

I may be a commie liberal, but I clearly don't have the perspective of an African American. What I have is the perspective of a poor white person who grew up with poor african americans and poor latin americans. I promise you there was a lot less racism in the trailer parks I grew up in than in the lily white suburbs that some of our resident OGB moderate Dems live in now. I cant deny that poor whites are ALSO racist, but that doesn't excuse the ignorant misplaced animosity that educated elitist Dems have for poor white people.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
That's some disengenious shit, PH. Systemic Anti-black racism clearly exists in a country founded and maintained by whites, whose economy was started with african slave labor with white slave owners. Why the fuck am I even telling you this? Of course you know this. I'm just really confounded as to how you're going to question my pointing out the fact that white people are racist against black people? As if that is in any way comparable to you conflating racism with poverty, like the goddamned pied piper of racists isnt President Donald Fucking Trump, and his racist demon spawn strategist isn't a rich Dukie prick. The people actively selling racism on the tv are in fact not poor at all.
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I really don’t know what your point is. You act like I said poor white people are racist and rich white people aren’t. All I said was a simple factual statement. You extrapolated that into something else.
 
MDMH takes every opportunity to push his self righteous narrative about how he has the right to claim whites are racist because he grew up poor and had black friends.

Growing up poor doesn’t give you any right to trash your own race.
 
PhDeac said:
I really don’t know what your point is. You act like I said poor white people are racist and rich white people aren’t. All I said was a simple factual statement. You extrapolated that into something else.
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What you said isn't factual, its a shitty, unnecessary, and erroneous generalization, with no consideration for the demographic differences between voters and non-voters. What you said deserved an extrapolation to demonstrate your lack of faith in populism.
 
RJKarl said:
If you check who voted for whom in PA, MI and WI, your premise is blown out of the water. Poor and nearly poor white put Trump and other candidates over the top.
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Do you have a link to these statistics? This doesn't match most of what I have seen. Trump voters were definitely overwhelmingly white, but weren't they also suburbanites and solidly middle class?
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
What you said isn't factual, its a shitty, unnecessary, and erroneous generalization, with no consideration for the demographic differences between voters and non-voters. What you said deserved an extrapolation to demonstrate your lack of faith in populism.
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I'm sympathetic to your politics and I'm not sure I'm understand what you're saying. What in Ph's post set you off? I don't think y'all disagree, but that's just based on what I see here.
 
Strickland33 said:
Do you have a link to these statistics? This doesn't match most of what I have seen. Trump voters were definitely overwhelmingly white, but weren't they also suburbanites and solidly middle class?
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Here's one of dozens:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/9/15592634/trump-clinton-racism-economy-prri-survey

"Survey: the poor white working class was, if anything, more likely than the rich to vote for Clinton
It wasn’t the economy, but racism and xenophobia, that explains Trump’s rise.

Survey: the poor white working class was, if anything, more likely than the rich to vote for Clinton
It wasn’t the economy, but racism and xenophobia, that explains Trump’s rise."
 
RJKarl said:
If you check who voted for whom in PA, MI and WI, your premise is blown out of the water. Poor and nearly poor white put Trump and other candidates over the top.
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literally in the article you posted:

And economic hardship among white working-class Americans actually predicted more support for Hillary Clinton, not Trump: Although not highly statistically significant, the survey found that “[t]hose who reported being in fair or poor financial shape were 1.7 times more likely to support Clinton, compared to those who were in better financial shape.” This finding rebukes the common sentiment that poor white Americans came out in droves to put Trump over the top in 2016.
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That was pretty bad by me...shouldn't multi-task with so many things...:)
 
Strickland33 said:
I'm not sure I'm understand what you're saying. What in Ph's post set you off?
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It's not an immutable fact that "poor white people" will vote against social safety net programs because of anti-black racism.

It seems as if Democrats are hardset on abandoning and conceding the constituency of poor (rural) whites, with racism as the go-to excuse. It reeks of elitism. I have good faith in PH's ideology, which is why its particularly frustrating for him to make such a hopeless generalization.
 
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myDeaconmyhand said:
It's not an immutable fact that "poor white people" will vote against social safety net programs because of anti-black racism.

It seems as if Democrats are hardset on abandoning and conceding the constituency of poor (rural) whites, with racism as the go-to excuse. It reeks of elitism. I have good faith in PH's ideology, which is why its particularly frustrating for him to make such a hopeless generalization.
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That’s not what I said. Don’t disagree with what I didn’t say under the guise of disagreeing with what I did say.
 
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