• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

The NC GOP Recovery

WakeandBake said:
ap5806500047.jpg





"Governor Perry extends his hands around and under the buttocks and awaits the shower of jism from Toyota after fellating them to move to his state."
Click to expand...

Why do we act like this is a bad thing?
 
It's great that Texas is doing well. I'm happy for Texas. Texas is a great state for the most part.

Texas also collected $4.5 billion (with a B) from oil and gas production taxes last year. http://www.texastransparency.org/State_Finance/Revenue/Revenue_by_Category.php

North Carolina's entire state budget is $20 billion. When we buy gas, we're sending money to Texas.

States that are blessed with natural resources like Texas and Florida (tourism) and Alaska have the luxury of zeroing income taxes and still funding basic needs for their citizenry. Republicans like to pretend that low taxes and no regulation created the Texas economy, as opposed to the fact that it is sitting on a bunch of dead dinosaurs and a very desirable coastline. Texas gets to leverage those resources to keep its taxes low and steal jobs from other states - again, great for Texas. Doesn't mean the prescription will work for North Carolina, Minnesota, or any other given state.
 
Deacon923 said:
It's great that Texas is doing well. I'm happy for Texas. Texas is a great state for the most part.

Texas also collected $4.5 billion (with a B) from oil and gas production taxes last year. http://www.texastransparency.org/State_Finance/Revenue/Revenue_by_Category.php

North Carolina's entire state budget is $20 billion. When we buy gas, we're sending money to Texas.

States that are blessed with natural resources like Texas and Florida (tourism) and Alaska have the luxury of zeroing income taxes and still funding basic needs for their citizenry. Republicans like to pretend that low taxes and no regulation created the Texas economy, as opposed to the fact that it is sitting on a bunch of dead dinosaurs and a very desirable coastline. Texas gets to leverage those resources to keep its taxes low and steal jobs from other states - again, great for Texas. Doesn't mean the prescription will work for North Carolina, Minnesota, or any other given state.
Click to expand...

What natural advantages does Florida have that California lacks? It seems to me that a responsibly-run California shouldn't take a back seat to many states in terms of attracting employers. California is like Florida with oil and without jorts.
 
California attracts plenty of employers. It's the tech startup capital of the universe and one of the top three most economically successful states in the US. In 2011, California attracted $14.7 billion in VC funding to Texas' $1.6 billion. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/09/venture-capitols-the-most-popular-states-for-startup-investors/262964/ It has a thriving oil and gas sector, Hollywood, big finance sector in LA and SF, etc. etc. Sure, sometimes employers leave California for one reason or another, taxes certainly among them. But let's not pretend that California is some rust belt dinosaur. California's answer to Texas' oil is its climate. The climate is so damn awesome that California can tax the hell out of its millionaires and the lion's share of them still stay. Just like Texas can tax its oil and gas and it can't go anywhere.
 
California's film industry is perhaps our most reliable export.
 
Deacon923 said:
I'm always interested in the claim that those evil socialist states like New York and California are "stagnating".

Does this look like stagnation to anybody?

fredgraph.png




How about gross domestic product?

fredgraph.png


NY's pretty flat, but if California is "stagnating", gimme summa dat stagnation.
Click to expand...

So CA, which has about 380% of NC's population has 600% of NC's GDP, yet in the bizarro world of jhmd, 2&2 and others, NC's economy is stronger. Hmmmmm
 
So Governor Perry swooped in and saved Toyota and Texas with this deal?

From the article it looked like Toyota was doing fine in California and Perry begged and begged them to come to Texas and basically undercut CA until the deal was so sweet they couldn't refuse. And jhmd comes along and acts like it is a genius financial move that California just couldn't wrap their head around. Where does that end, the last state with no regs and no taxes gets all the business?

jhmd, if it is such a great deal, once you zip up why don't you tell us what the details of the deal are? What regulations were they able to get out of, and which Texas citizens are affected by it? just curious

You are basically saying that NC and CA better get on the "low regs low taxes" bandwagon or they are going to get left in the dust. And you believe that is a good thing. right?
 
Last edited:
WakeandBake said:
So Governor Perry swooped in and saved Toyota and Texas with this deal?

From the article it looked like Toyota was doing fine in California and Perry begged and begged them to come to Texas and basically undercut CA until the deal was so sweet they couldn't refuse. And jhmd comes along and acts like it is a genius financial move that California just couldn't wrap their head around. Where does that end, the last state with no regs and no taxes gets all the business?

jhmd, if it is such a great deal, once you zip up why don't you tell us what the details of the deal are? What regulations were they able to get out of, and which Texas citizens are affected by it? just curious

You are basically saying that NC and CA better get on the "low regs low taxes" bandwagon or they are going to get left in the dust. And you believe that is a good thing. right?
Click to expand...

low regs low taxes works great if you have a reliable geographic/natural resource base to fill in the gaps and attract business. If you don't - you're Mississippi. It is of course possible to go way too far with high taxes and legacy unions, which can be a pretty toxic recipe when the economy turns against the state's key industries (thus Illinois and Michigan are struggling, but NY is still doing pretty well).

I would argue that North Carolina is, or at least has been, a pretty great middle ground - a right to work state, middle of the road tax burden, middle of the road regulatory burden, smart investments in infrastructure and public education, especially higher education. We ended up with a big financial sector in Charlotte, a good tech sector in RTP, and a strongish logistics sector in Greensboro.

It seems to me that the guys running Raleigh right now believe they can abandon the building infrastructure and education piece of it for low taxes and we'll turn into Texas. Problem is, we don't have the Gulf or nearly enough dead dinos to make that work long term.
 
Republicans are fighting each other to be an American version of a 3rd world home for low wage workers.
 
WFFaithful said:
Complete with armed rebel militias
Click to expand...

Hahaha. True. They're trying to take the South back to the antebellum days with a small class of elites, segregation, and a large low skilled, low wage labor force.

The solution for economic growth isn't luring corporations from other states. That's pathetic poaching. The solution is educating the citizenry and encouraging entrepreneurship. Give people avenues to use their own talents rather than sacrificing their own talent to make big businesses more money.
 
FWIW, there is a front page article in the Wall Street Journal today about Texas. The theme is that Texas is having trouble maintaining its infrastructure and building new infrastructure for all the people/businesses who moved there during the last few years, because they are ideologically incapable of raising taxes to deal with their problems. The basic solution is to make the cities pay for everything or use public/private deals like toll roads, but the challenges may be too big especially with regard to water infrastructure.

Just like NC, the GOP down there derives its power base from the suburbs and the rural areas, but the economic engines of the state are the cities. They tend to vote Democratic and they're the ones really feeling the pinch of these issues - people didn't move to Texas to get jobs on farms, they moved to the cities. And just like NC, the GOP power brokers aren't interested in helping out those dirty Democrats in the cities. Time will tell if that's a sustainable model.
 
Define sustainable. They should be able to sustain their power by forcing cities to earn more revenue and demonizing them for doing it.
 
Deacon923 said:
FWIW, there is a front page article in the Wall Street Journal today about Texas. The theme is that Texas is having trouble maintaining its infrastructure and building new infrastructure for all the people/businesses who moved there during the last few years, because they are ideologically incapable of raising taxes to deal with their problems. The basic solution is to make the cities pay for everything or use public/private deals like toll roads, but the challenges may be too big especially with regard to water infrastructure.

Just like NC, the GOP down there derives its power base from the suburbs and the rural areas, but the economic engines of the state are the cities. They tend to vote Democratic and they're the ones really feeling the pinch of these issues - people didn't move to Texas to get jobs on farms, they moved to the cities. And just like NC, the GOP power brokers aren't interested in helping out those dirty Democrats in the cities. Time will tell if that's a sustainable model.
Click to expand...

This post coupled with post #172 is what I was driving at. In the long run it looks to me like Toyota wins (and politicians) and the Texas and California citizens lose, in spite of Texas's natural resources.
 
Texas offered Toyota $40 million to move to the Lone Star State, part of a Texas Enterprise Fund incentive program run out of the governor's office. It is one of the largest incentives handed out in the decade-old program--and costs more per job created than any other large award. Last year, Texas spent about $6,800 to lure each of 1,700 Chevron Corp. positions to Houston and $5,800 for each of 3,600 Apple Inc. jobs shifted to Austin. Texas is paying $10,000 per job for the Toyota relocation.
Click to expand...
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20140428-711142.html

That was nice of Governor Perry to pay them all that money to come there.
 
I thought that government wasn't in the business of picking winners and losers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top