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This thread is about context

More context.

Brad "Buck" Brownell
Record at Clemson: 35-25
Conference championships: 3
NCAA appearances: 4
NCAA wins: 1
Age: 43

Jim Larranaga
Record at Miami: 16-9
Conference championships: 3
NCAA appearances: 5
NCAA wins: 5 (Final Four 2006)
Age: 62

Steve Donahue
Record at BC: 29-32
Conference championships: 3
NCAA appearances: 3
NCAA wins: 2 (Sweet Sixteen 2010)
Age: 49

Mark Turgeon
Record at Maryland: 15-11
Conference championships: 0
NCAA appearances: 5
NCAA wins: 5 (Sweet Sixteen 2006)
Age: 47

Mark Gottfried
Record at State: 18-9
Conference championships: 1
NCAA appearances: 7
NCAA wins: 5 (Elite Eight 2004)
Age: 48

Brian Gregory
Record at GT: 9-17
Conference championships: 0
NCAA appearances: 2
NCAA wins: 1
Age: 45

Jeff [Redacted]
Record at WF: 20-39
Conference championships: 0
NCAA appearances: 1
NCAA wins: 0
Age: 59
 
ASU was a fluke. Hell even Carowhina lost by 30 for FSU.

The Wofford game sticks in my craw because it looked like CJ could have played.

Dayton got votes for the Top 25.

We match up horribly against State. This was posted by many people here.

The reality is we don't have much talent this year and have no depth. When you add those two together, you get ugly losses.

It would be nice if this wasn't true but it is.
 
DeaconSig said:
How many good teams have we played? Duke, FSU, UNC, and UVa? How many bad to mediocre teams have beat our ass? ASU, NCSU, Clemson, Wofford, Richmond, Dayton?
Click to expand...

And how many other less talented teams have still managed to improve over the course of the season and play some good teams close (BC comes to mind)?
 
Ad nauseum. Honestly, I watched the Miami game and came away with the following:

* Our offense doesn't look crisp, even when we are scoring. Not really sure what the philosophy is
* We fight and work hard
* Walker must still be an enigma to this coach as well, because he makes such a difference on the defensive end
* Miami hit every fucking 3 they took in the 2nd half. Some you could chalk up to bad or just okay D, but there for about 5 minutes, we really tried to stay in the thing with some CJ and Chase shots, but Travis couldn't hit anything and seriously, Miami had some guys shooting 20% from the 3 point line banging in shots. I didn't get too worked up about falling down by 20 considering how they just couldn't miss.

I forgot to include LaG in my list of coaches. Will add him above, but he is very good coach. Will be interested to see what he does at Miami over the next 5 years
 
Georgia Tech's 2012 recruiting class is 23rd on ESPN (Wake is 19th), 17th on Scout (Wake is 22nd) and 15th in Rivals (Wake is not in the top 25 there).

Hard to just proclaim that they're in a "larger mess than we are in with average to bad recruiting" and that Wake's "2nd year looks like it is going to be great" in a thread about context without mentioning, well, the context.

Also, contextually, Julian Royal is higher rated than anyone we had in 2011. And they recently got Stacey Poole (4* SF) as a transfer.

But, again, context.
 
OldGoldBeard said:
More context.

Brad "Buck" Brownell
Record at Clemson: 35-25
Conference championships: 3
NCAA appearances: 4
NCAA wins: 1
Age: 43

Our hire was better

Jim Larranaga
Record at Miami: 16-9
Conference championships: 3
NCAA appearances: 5
NCAA wins: 5 (Final Four 2006)
Age: 62

Love Jimmy but he was hired to stay 2-4 years and to fend off NCAA sanctions.

Steve Donahue
Record at BC: 29-32
Conference championships: 3
NCAA appearances: 3
NCAA wins: 2 (Sweet Sixteen 2010)
Age: 49

Hasn't recruited shit at BC. He will keep them in the bottom three of the conference as long as he is there.

Mark Turgeon
Record at Maryland: 15-11
Conference championships: 0
NCAA appearances: 5
NCAA wins: 5 (Sweet Sixteen 2006)
Age: 47
Would have been an excellent hire but had just signed an extension at TX A&M. He wan't available to us.

Mark Gottfried
Record at State: 18-9
Conference championships: 1
NCAA appearances: 7
NCAA wins: 5 (Elite Eight 2004)
Age: 48

What happened at Bama may have disqualified him from Wake. He just didn't fit.

Brian Gregory
Record at GT: 9-17
Conference championships: 0
NCAA appearances: 2
NCAA wins: 1
Age: 45

Worse hire than [Redacted]

Jeff [Redacted]
Record at WF: 20-39
Conference championships: 0
NCAA appearances: 1
NCAA wins: 0
Age: 59
Click to expand...

A 2 AM choice who was hit by the perfect storm. He wasn't our first choice and probaly not our second. That's the contect here.
 
TBR said:
Instead of looking at the bench he needs to look at himself. He recruited that bench.
Click to expand...

One of his recruits has been used in the starting lineup and plays significant minutes as a freshman, one has dealt with physical issues and appears to need to mature more physically before significantly contributing (pretty normal for freshmen) and one hasn't turned out as well as hoped (to say the least). And those guys would probably rank as our 6th, 8th and 9th players respectively. My point is that Coach doesn't have much to pull from past our starters. I understand many teams only play 8 in their regular rotation but those 8 are chosen from 11 or 12. No choices here. Just an observation and when he does have a full complement of scholarship players, we better see marked improvement or I don't think he is here past next year.
 
slothrop said:
Georgia Tech's 2012 recruiting class is 23rd on ESPN (Wake is 19th), 17th on Scout (Wake is 22nd) and 15th in Rivals (Wake is not in the top 25 there).

Hard to just proclaim that they're in a "larger mess than we are in with average to bad recruiting" and that Wake's "2nd year looks like it is going to be great" in a thread about context without mentioning, well, the context.

Also, contextually, Julian Royal is higher rated than anyone we had in 2011. And they recently got Stacey Poole (4* SF) as a transfer.

But, again, context.
Click to expand...

Add to that the fact that GT will lose only 3.0 ppg to graduation after this year, whereas our third- and fourth-best players will both be leaving, and they have at least as much reason for hope next year as we do.
 
DeaconSig said:
How many good teams have we played? Duke, FSU, UNC, and UVa? How many bad to mediocre teams have beat our ass? ASU, NCSU, Clemson, Wofford, Richmond, Dayton?
Click to expand...

4 point losses to Dayton and Wofford is an ass beating? Good to know.
 
Brownell is a better hire than [Redacted]. I fail to see why you continue to hate on him, RJ. He is local, knows the high schools, gets the most out of his players and is young. He is exactly what [Redacted] has tried (and failed) to be, but is younger -- and better at it.

The propensity with which you fail to recognize good mid major coaches (namely Brownell & Groce in particular) is perplexing to me.
 
Nice research OldGodBeard, but building a program is not a numbers game in the first two years. Indiana and Michigan both have fantastic coaches and their first several years sucked, numbers wise. They were given the benefit of the doubt because they are obviously good coaches with a system and a track record in power conferences.

None of the ACC hires were in the same league with Crean and Bahein (sp?), it seems

But these things grade out in year 3 and 4, not year 1 and 2.

All I'm saying is you look at talent and experience each coach had when they started, the recruits they've signed since arriving, and their records compared to expectation, and none of these coaches save Gottfried stand out as great hires.

I'd rank them as

NC State
Miami
Wake, Tech, Maryland, Clemson
BC

I'd have put Tech down with BC but I thought Gregory was in year 2. Dissension in year 1 is par for the course.
 
Wasn't Gottfried the first coach to try to poach ATT after Skip died? Fuck him.
 
slothrop said:
Brownell is a better hire than [Redacted]. I fail to see why you continue to hate on him, RJ. He is local, knows the high schools, gets the most out of his players and is young. He is exactly what [Redacted] has tried (and failed) to be, but is younger -- and better at it.

The propensity with which you fail to recognize good mid major coaches (namely Brownell & Groce in particular) is perplexing to me.
Click to expand...

Remember two years ago when RJ was ranting about how Groce would be a terrible hire, then the Ohio grad on here (BobcatGrad86, IIRC) said, "I agree with RJ, Wake should definitely not hire Groce! ;)"? Then RJ was like, "SEE!! Even the Ohoi say he's an awwful coach!" until everyone started laughing at him. Ah, memories.
 
Slothrop, I think Stevens and Shaka and Jimmy Laranaga, among others are/were excellent mid-major coachers. I just don't think Brownell is.

As to Groce in his first three years coaching in a mediocre conference, he was under
.500 in conference games. He has to prove more.
 
slothrop said:
Georgia Tech's 2012 recruiting class is 23rd on ESPN (Wake is 19th), 17th on Scout (Wake is 22nd) and 15th in Rivals (Wake is not in the top 25 there).

Hard to just proclaim that they're in a "larger mess than we are in with average to bad recruiting" and that Wake's "2nd year looks like it is going to be great" in a thread about context without mentioning, well, the context.

Also, contextually, Julian Royal is higher rated than anyone we had in 2011. And they recently got Stacey Poole (4* SF) as a transfer.

But, again, context.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Look, I honestly didn't start this thread to be the definitive bearer of the context in this situation, just to start a rational discussion.

If info is provided that proves me wrong, I am more than happy to concede a point.

Maybe Gregory will end up a great hire for Tech, I know there were concerns about his game coaching while at Dayton. This year has been a mess for them. They have the least amount of talent I've seen at Tech in a long time and have to be honest, I thought he was in year 2.

But I don't think any of the coaches should be judged until they have a chance to move the program in a particular direction. It was obvious Crean was going to get it done based on who he is and who he was bringing in.

I eyeball NC State and I have to concede ditto. He is not Crean, but damn he has the opportunity to do some great things in the next 5 years.

We hope to be in position to do great things in two years. Hope. State looks infinitiely better positioned
 
RJKarl said:
Slothrop, I think Stevens and Shaka and Jimmy Laranaga, among others are/were excellent mid-major coachers. I just don't think Brownell is.

As to Groce in his first three years coaching in a mediocre conference, he was under
.500 in conference games. He has to prove more.
Click to expand...

In his first 5 years in a major conference, [Redacted] is under .200 in conference games (14-63), but that doesn't seem to bother you too much.
 
Without questiion Laranga is the best coach of the group. But his age eliminates him from being anything other than a stopgap.

Turgeon would be next.

Donahue's problems are that he has no story to tell; he's in a basketball weak region; college bball is not a New England priotiry and he has few big time recruiting ties. He's a perfect coach for Cornell and would have been a legend there.
 
Gregory was a placeholder hire to begin with. I don't think any Georgia Tech fans believe him to be a savior. They're just treading water and trying to hold it together while they fix the arena situation and finish paying off Hewitt.
 
slothrop said:
Gregory was a placeholder hire to begin with. I don't think any Georgia Tech fans believe him to be a savior. They're just treading water and trying to hold it together while they fix the arena situation and finish paying off Hewitt.
Click to expand...

And he is still better than [Redacted].
 
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