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This thread is about context

lol Arizona State has eight wins and is 245 in KenPom.
 
deacvision7 said:
No, they aren't. But they have still kicked our asses.
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But I thought Mr. RJK advised us that getting blown out by good teams was understandable. I'm just confused about the identity of all of these good teams. I'm sorry but I don't seem to follow that logic if we haven't even played any good teams this season.

-22
 
PhDeac said:
Why? I know you want him to (we all do). Why do you think he will? What about his coaching resume convinces you that [Redacted] is a championship coach?
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Well I watched the game when Air Force wooped us and I saw a well coached team (maybe not all his doing, and I know it was only one game). He got hired as an NBA head coach (pretty good company, save Dick Vitale). He had Colorado going in the right direction. I've seen us get more easy baskets this year than in the recent past (despite an offensively challenged team - I know there have been plenty of boneheaded plays lapses too). A lot of people in the NBA respect him. He managed to get a good class coming in next year. And, personally I think you need some Princeton type principles in a good offense.

I am not convinced he will be a championship coach, but I do think he can get us back to the top tier (3 or 4) of the league and into the top 25. I am not saying he would have been my choice for a hire, or that we shouldn't have gotten someone younger with more of a long term view. I just think a lot of the criticism is unfair given the talent he has had so far. Next year, it may be fair if he can't get it turned around.
 
The real context is that the majority of fans that mostly don't post on these message boards, the non-die hards, the missing 10,000 from the Joel don't give a shit about stats, other teams records, etc... they care that the coach is unlikable, the team sucks, and we get blown out.
 
I just realized that we've only beaten two top 150 kenpom teams all year. WTH
In 2009 VT rushed the court when they beat us, in 2011, beating an unranked VT on our own court is our best upset win of the season.

Our wins:
Loyola: NR
Georgia Southern: 233
NC Central: 217
Texas Tech: 241
Nebraska: 134
High Point: 253
Gardner-Webb 260
UNC-Wilmington - 237
Yale - 164
Virginia Tech - 85
Boston College - 239
Georgia Tech - 151
 
Loyola MD is 135: One of our best wins of the year.
 
Wake Forest 2012 Opponents By KenPom

Vs. Top 50: 0-6 (46 Seton Hall, 13 Duke, 21 FSU, 7 UNC, 20 UVA, 42 Miami) Average margin in losses: 18.66

Vs. 50-100: 1-5 (92 Dayton, 85 VT [WIN!], 55 NCSU, 76 Clemson, 55 NCSU, 76 Clemson) Average margin in losses: 16.4

Vs. 100-150: 2-2 (135 Loyola MD [WIN!], 134 Nebraska [WIN!], 116 Richmond, 146 Maryland) Average margin in losses: 7

Vs. 150-200 2-1: (164 Yale [WIN!], 189 Wofford, Georgia Tech [WIN!]) Average margin in losses: 4

Vs. 200+ 7-1: (235 Georgia Southern [WIN!], 217 NCCU [WIN!], 245 Arizona State, 241 Texas Tech [WIN!], High Point [WIN!], 260 Gardner Webb [WIN!], 237 UNCW [WIN!], 239 Boston College [WIN!]) Average margin in losses: 28

To be fair, we do typically lose by more to better teams, Arizona State outlier aside.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I just realized that we've only beaten two top 150 kenpom teams all year. WTH
In 2009 VT rushed the court when they beat us, in 2011, beating an unranked VT on our own court is our best upset win of the season.
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Don't mind the nitpicking (it's what I do), but VT did not rush the court when they beat us. Well, I suppose they could have, but the game was at the Joel so it would have been pretty awkward.
 
Schwabber89 said:
Well I watched the game when Air Force wooped us and I saw a well coached team (maybe not all his doing, and I know it was only one game). He got hired as an NBA head coach (pretty good company, save Dick Vitale). He had Colorado going in the right direction....
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It's been posted earlier, but we were on a bad losing streak when AF beat us that year, and had been beaten by some bad teams. Lot's of bad coaches have coached in the NBA and then been fired, especially with all the politics and money issues that go into NBA coaching hires. I mean, do you want John Kuester or Paul Westphal to coach here? To your point with Colorado, what proof is there of his positive impact? Colorado won 20 games just a season before he got there, and 5 years since he was hired they still haven't gone to the NCAA tournament.
 
TBR said:
Don't mind the nitpicking (it's what I do), but VT did not rush the court when they beat us. Well, I suppose they could have, but the game was at the Joel so it would have been pretty awkward.
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Good point. Didn't some team rush the court when they beat us that year? Maybe I'm just going crazy.
 
Probably not the game you are referencing but Clemson rushed the court during our 3-13 year after beating us by 1 point in OT.
 
Schwabber89 said:
Well I watched the game when Air Force wooped us and I saw a well coached team (maybe not all his doing, and I know it was only one game). He got hired as an NBA head coach (pretty good company, save Dick Vitale). He had Colorado going in the right direction. I've seen us get more easy baskets this year than in the recent past (despite an offensively challenged team - I know there have been plenty of boneheaded plays lapses too). A lot of people in the NBA respect him. He managed to get a good class coming in next year. And, personally I think you need some Princeton type principles in a good offense.

I am not convinced he will be a championship coach, but I do think he can get us back to the top tier (3 or 4) of the league and into the top 25. I am not saying he would have been my choice for a hire, or that we shouldn't have gotten someone younger with more of a long term view. I just think a lot of the criticism is unfair given the talent he has had so far. Next year, it may be fair if he can't get it turned around.
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So your two major pro-buzz arguments (in a thread about putting things into context) are:

1- he was hired as an nba coach

2- he blew us out once (6 years ago)


I'll counter with:

1- He's been fired from the NBA more recently than he's been hired to the NBA.

2- he's gotten blown out (by 10 or more) 29 times in his ~2 seasons at wake.
 
vtwhat etc said:
So your two major pro-buzz arguments (in a thread about putting things into context) are:

1- he was hired as an nba coach

2- he blew us out once (6 years ago)


I'll counter with:

1- He's been fired from the NBA more recently than he's been hired to the NBA.

2- he's gotten blown out (by 10 or more) 29 times in his ~2 seasons at wake.
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All the standard Bzz-In bullet points have been refuted Ad nauseum on this board, but a few holdouts won't give up the ghost. The others have shifted from Bzz-defense, to fear of coach firing ramifications.
 
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myDeaconmyhand said:
All the standard Bzz-In bullet points have been refuted Ad nauseum on this board, but a few holdouts won't give up the ghost. The others have shifted from Bzz-defense, to fear of coach firing ramifications.[/QUOTE]

I don't recall any fear of coach firing ramifications when Coach Gaudio was terminated. Why should there be any fears now?

-22
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DEAC22 said:
myDeaconmyhand said:
All the standard Bzz-In bullet points have been refuted Ad nauseum on this board, but a few holdouts won't give up the ghost. The others have shifted from Bzz-defense, to fear of coach firing ramifications.[/QUOTE]

I don't recall any fear of coach firing ramifications when Coach Gaudio was terminated. Why should there be any fears now?

-22
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There were, that in part is why so many people expected the clear upgrade. "you don't just fire a guy with an ave of 20 wins a yr and not have someone better"....Was the counterpoint of who comes after you fire a guy with an ave of 20 wins.

We asked for better, we didn't even get butter.
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Ralph Medlin said:
Here's to hoping CMM is our Andre Miller and Devin Thomas is Melo so Buzz can prove his one coaching success in Denver 10 years ago was not a fluke
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DUDE! He once coached Air Force to a #11 ranking and a first round exit in the NCAA tournament. THE NCAA TOURNAMENT! Do you even know what that is? That is the definition of success and from what I understand, BZ may one take recreate the magic of that historical Air Force season.
 
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