Thomas calling out the doubters MTOW

[Strickland33]

I'd imagine the number of people on here actively pulling against Wake is probably around 20 or 25%. That leaves a pretty good majority of posters on here - the most ardently Bzzout site or fan population anywhere - who think Bzz should be fired and are probably fine with the billboard and/or donated to it. This is Dan's position and he's getting blasted for it?

I really don't think that's the case. Why don't you make a poll or something... Dan's getting blasted because everyone is sick of his routine, one that Ph has described pretty well many times before. There is no middle of the road in the Buzz debate, as jaybone's admission has revealed, no matter how much Dan wants to show some journalistic objectivity (whatever the hell that means for an opinion columnist). There's a fringe of 5-10 folks on boards who love Buzz. There's a fringe of 5-10 on the other extreme, as well. If I had to speculate, then I'd say that the center has shifted much farther toward the BuzzOut fringe than the Dan Collins and Mundy types out there ever care to admit.

 

[tbird]

He seems to get us fairly well, what dont you think he gets?

Of all the people on these boards not everyone is on the same page. Most feel Bz & Grobe should be replaced. Others are lukewarm to the idea. Same with Wellman. Seems to be a fringe who want the three out no matter what. Especially Wellman, whether he exits vertically or horizontally...

Dan feels Wake fans are not being sincere by pulling for the team to lose. IMO, if they have to lose to replace Bz and Wellman then so be it. Regarding Grobe, he has been provided plenty of slack since the glory years and admittedly he has used all the goodwill and accolades accumulated earlier. Grobe seems to have lost his passion for the game and has become complacent with his huge contractural payout...

Still think it would be a good idea for Dan to interview several of the most active on these boards.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

I really don't think that's the case. Why don't you make a poll or something... Dan's getting blasted because everyone is sick of his routine, one that Ph has described pretty well many times before. There is no middle of the road in the Buzz debate, as jaybone's admission has revealed, no matter how much Dan wants to show some journalistic objectivity (whatever the hell that means for an opinion columnist). There's a fringe of 5-10 folks on boards who love Buzz. There's a fringe of 5-10 on the other extreme, as well. If I had to speculate, then I'd say that the center has shifted much farther toward the BuzzOut fringe than the Dan Collins and Mundy types out there ever care to admit.

This is a valid post, especially the last sentence. I don't now if it's true or not, but it's at least a valid point. I thought most people wanted Bzz fired, didn't really care about the Billboard one way or the other, and still pull for Wake (even if they don't actively watch).

 

[awaken]

Look Dan, the AD indicts Bz with our soft schedule. They know he's incompetent, and are watering down the schedule to hide this fact. As LK said, they are the ones who need to be right here. The rest of us are willing to call a spade a spade, admit that Bz never should have been hired, and get on with getting a competent replacement.

 

[advancedeac]

I am neither buzz out or in. I am Wake-in. I would be happy for Buzz to succeed. I am not so vested in my position on Buzz that I cannot accept a good outcome for him. Doubt it will happen but don't rule it out. I think I am closer to the average Wake alum fan. There clearly are a good number of Buzz-outers but not a majority. They are more strident and vocal, but not a majority. And as to the non-alum Wake sports fans who have figured so prominently in the billboards and such, they have a different perspective. It is great to have them involved, but they are renters of the Wake experience not owners. I know a lot of them are from old Wake families. Multi-generation Wake family guy here-big picture guy not just sports. Long story short the players will play hard and try to win over the doubters and they cannot worry about the ones that are too far gone. FT.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

I think it's almost undeniable that the majority of Wake fans are Bzz-out. I think that's just a fact.

 

[DownEastDeac]

No one is opposed to Buzz taking us to a 22-10 record, and no one is pulling for a 8-14 season. The concern for me and I bet a lot of others is that we go around 16-16 with one or two decent wins and Wellman says that justifies a contract extension. So I'm pulling for a solid winning season which would justify keeping Buzz, but if we're not going to compete in the upper half of the ACC I'd rather see us crash and burn to force Wellman's hand. And I make no apologies for that and I don't think that it makes me a bad fan; just the reality of what it obviously would take to enact change from the Hatch/Wellman regime.

 

[tbird]

I am neither buzz out or in. I am Wake-in. I would be happy for Buzz to succeed. I am not so vested in my position on Buzz that I cannot accept a good outcome for him. Doubt it will happen but don't rule it out. I think I am closer to the average Wake alum fan. There clearly are a good number of Buzz-outers but not a majority. They are more strident and vocal, but not a majority. And as to the non-alum Wake sports fans who have figured so prominently in the billboards and such, they have a different perspective. It is great to have them involved, but they are renters of the Wake experience not owners. I know a lot of them are from old Wake families. Multi-generation Wake family guy here-big picture guy not just sports. Long story short the players will play hard and try to win over the doubters and they cannot worry about the ones that are too far gone. FT.

Imagine that if the three were replaced by a competent trio the level of support would be substantial...The present regime is not working. Been provided a huge amount of slack and they still lose...Time to begin anew!

 

[Why the Deac Not]

#SCORCHEDEARTHMUTHAFUCKAS

 

[ManhassetDeac]

No one is opposed to Buzz taking us to a 22-10 record, and no one is pulling for a 8-14 season. The concern for me and I bet a lot of others is that we go around 16-16 with one or two decent wins and Wellman says that justifies a contract extension. So I'm pulling for a solid winning season which would justify keeping Buzz, but if we're not going to compete in the upper half of the ACC I'd rather see us crash and burn to force Wellman's hand. And I make no apologies for that and I don't think that it makes me a bad fan; just the reality of what it obviously would take to enact change from the Hatch/Wellman regime.

This just isn't true. Right or wrong, there are several people pulling for the 8 win season. Some are so vested in the opinion that buzz sucks that they want to lose terribly now to ensure he's ousted. I think they'd rather see it than the 22 win season.

 

[mebanedeac]

This just isn't true. Right or wrong, there are several people pulling for the 8 win season. Some are so vested in the opinion that buzz sucks that they want to lose terribly now to ensure he's ousted. I think they'd rather see it than the 22 win season.

That is true, sadly.

 

[ManhassetDeac]

This just isn't true. Right or wrong, there are several people pulling for the 8 win season. Some are so vested in the opinion that buzz sucks that they want to lose terribly now to ensure he's ousted. I think they'd rather see it than the 22 win season.

That is true, sadly.

But here is my problem: I completely understand the logic. If [Redacted] is doing damage to the program, don't we want circumstances to play out so that his removal is undeniable? An 8 win season would do that. So I get it. But for whatever reason, I continue to pull for the team to win. I just can't be on the other side if the equation. Just isn't in me and I think a lot of fans are in the exact same boat.

 

[deacvision7]

I'm not rooting for an 8 win season, at this point I'm rooting for a 5 win season. #ScorchedEarth

 

[Strickland33]

But here is my problem: I completely understand the logic. If [Redacted] is doing damage to the program, don't we want circumstances to play out so that his removal is undeniable? An 8 win season would do that. So I get it. But for whatever reason, I continue to pull for the team to win. I just can't be on the other side if the equation. Just isn't in me and I think a lot of fans are in the exact same boat.

Which is why most are over Dan Collins's straw men arguments. It sucks because, if I had to guess, then most Wake fans don't read this board and Dan's hyperbole goes unchecked, just feeding the echo chamber that validates the Wellman administration.

As Wake fans, we don't have many representatives in the press and the ones we do have pull shit like this all of the time. Rather than going after the few fans who still care enough to get angry, these guys just constantly throw them under the bus to make them look "reasonable." It's funny that one-off blog posts by Brennan, Eisenberg, Parrish, etc. are 250x more honest than anything that has been posted in a friendly media forum. Just like Mundy, Collins makes it so that fans equate any frustration with a lunatic fringe. It's bad journalism and, frankly, dishonest.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

I don't really think Dan has that much hyperbole. The poll is still early on the boards here, but not that many people are actively pulling against Wake. Most fans (on the boards and otherwise) are Bzz out and Dan has admitted as such and acts accordingly. He writes about this a decent amount. I don't think Collins is even remotely making anything look like lunatic fringe other than pulling for your team to lose which even I think is slightly fringe behavior.

 

[WFFaithful]

This just isn't true. Right or wrong, there are several people pulling for the 8 win season. Some are so vested in the opinion that buzz sucks that they want to lose terribly now to ensure he's ousted. I think they'd rather see it than the 22 win season.

The 22 win season is unattainable. We win 16 or 17 and Buzz is hailed as coach for life because of the progress made this season.

 

[VaDeac]

Good for Devin. That's the attitude he should have.

 

[Deac83]

First off I get the players view, they have to shut out the negatives all their lives. At the same time, you call out the fans, you better deliver. Devin goes for 20 and 10 against KU and he can say whatever he wants.

That being said, no matter my feelings for bzz or Staak, I route for the team to win every game. If the team does not come through and they get fired all the better.

The sad fact is that last year's team should have done better. Just evaluating progress by total wins from one year to the next doesn't account for the talent that is put on the floor. Bzz got one of those special players in Devin and pissed it away last year. For that Bzz is far worse than Staak ever was. We felt we had no chance under Staak, last year we had enough talent in the watered down ACC to do much better and we didn't.

Dan misses the mark, so what if 5% of the fan base hopes we lose, that leaves 95% that don't. Why bring it up. It just like that in life, the 95% pay the price for the 5%, Dan should know better. Even if 60% are 'good' bzzout fans that's more than enough to validate the opinion bzz should be gone.

Maybe Dan should consider what would have happened to bzz at a big school with a larger fanbase. There is no way he'd have survived this long at a school with 20k+ students and an alumni base to match.

 

[Why the Deac Not]

The 22 win season is unattainable. We win 16 or 17 and Buzz is hailed as coach for life because of the progress made this season.

Alas, that is the real and true fear. Slight improvement in the form of pre-conditioned mediocrity ensures year 5 of this awful experiment.

 

[wfu22fan]

We can't recruit unless Bzz gets an extension (Haas) . If Buzz gets an extension, I will need a much stronger anti- depressant . I am not going to pull against WFU but it's tempting .