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Thomas calling out the doubters MTOW

I love the cat fighting that Dan and Paul M Kennedy do in the comments section. I think I enjoyed reading that more than the article.
 
Dino's first team barely missed the NIT and then the next year's team was one of the best regular season teams in the country. Going from not close to the NIT to slightly missing the NIT isn't an accomplishment and I doubt our athletic department would view it as such, no matter how incompetent you think they are.
 
I can think of maybe three people on this board who fit Dan's description. I'd like us to go 20-11 this year and make it to the second round of the NCAA... and then fire Bz. Then we're all happy.
 
Our athletic department would view that as an accomplishment.
 
Strickland is killing this thread. Very well put all the way around.
 
Strickland has made some good points, but I still don't understand the criticism of this article. As mentioned earlier Dan agrees [Redacted] should be fired, Dan agrees people should be upset, Dan doesn't care if people put the billboard up or the ads (he just wouldn't contribute - just like plenty of us), he just doesn't want to pull against Wake and doesn't think other people should. The poll posted on the other thread isn't the most scientific of all time, but most people on here - the bastion of discontent about Wake athletics - aren't pulling against Wake. Dan would fit in nicely around here if he posted anonymously. What's the beef with his last few articles? He's turned a leaf since the middle of last year when he finally said [Redacted] wasn't the guy for the job.
 
PhDeac said:
Our athletic department would view that as an accomplishment.
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That was Dino's record his final season. If we win 20 games and don't make the dance does anyone on this board think Wellman shows his friend the door?
 
Deac83 said:
First off I get the players view, they have to shut out the negatives all their lives. At the same time, you call out the fans, you better deliver. Devin goes for 20 and 10 against KU and he can say whatever he wants.
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So if he doesn't play well against one of the top teams in the nation, he can't have an opinion about the negativity around our program? I'm thinking that Devin has earned the right to say what he said regardless of his performance against KU. Don't you think a big part of their gameplan will be to make it difficult for him?
 
I expect Devin to have a difficult time tomorrow with the three guys on their team above 6'8" who are incredible on offense. I think he may be in some foul trouble.
 
421Deac said:
So if he doesn't play well against one of the top teams in the nation, he can't have an opinion about the negativity around our program? I'm thinking that Devin has earned the right to say what he said regardless of his performance against KU. Don't you think a big part of their gameplan will be to make it difficult for him?
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Talk is cheap, put up the number to justify the talk. Basically if this team is going to shut up the fan base, it's going to be on the back of Devin. He is the difference maker. Just saying if you are going to go after the fans, you better not go 3-10 8 pts and 7 rebounds.

Sure he can have an opinion, just don't tell it to the press if you can't back it up.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Strickland has made some good points, but I still don't understand the criticism of this article. As mentioned earlier Dan agrees [Redacted] should be fired, Dan agrees people should be upset, Dan doesn't care if people put the billboard up or the ads (he just wouldn't contribute - just like plenty of us), he just doesn't want to pull against Wake and doesn't think other people should. The poll posted on the other thread isn't the most scientific of all time, but most people on here - the bastion of discontent about Wake athletics - aren't pulling against Wake. Dan would fit in nicely around here if he posted anonymously. What's the beef with his last few articles? He's turned a leaf since the middle of last year when he finally said [Redacted] wasn't the guy for the job.
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It's a great article other than the part where he states his opinion doesn't matter 3-4 times and then closes by offering his opinion on a group of people who might not even exist.

And even if that group of people does exist, Dan's opinion of them is logically flawed.

Buzzouters don't care about being right at this point. They are objectively, without a doubt, 100% right and they know it. Buzz was a horrible hire and is a horrible coach. His past 3 years at Wake and his coaching record prior to that establish beyond a reasonable doubt that the Buzzouters are right. Nothing short of a final four/championship in the next three years can make up for the last 3 years.

For those who do or think about rooting against Wake the question is not about being right or wrong, it is whether you trust the athletic department to make a reasonable decision about [Redacted]'s future. Anything short of reaching the first saturday of the NCAA tournament should objectively result in [Redacted] being fired. Anything more than 13 wins might result in [Redacted] not being fired.

Any Wake fan would be ecstatic to win 22 games even if it wouldn't change many people's opinions about [Redacted] (it wouldn't change mine). However we are looking at a baseline 16-17 win team +/- 4 or 5. Many Wake fans feel, and justifiably so, that the program would be better off longterm if Wake ended up - 4 or 5 rather than + 4 or 5 this season.

An objective reporter might consider the option that it might be an indictment of the AD when fans have significant motivation to hope the team has a bad season. Dan simply concludes that it must be a problem with the fans.
 
I'm probably in the minority in that I think a change is more likely to occur with a little bit of positive momentum. We all agree that wellman's ego is the major player here. I think he grabs the opportunity to save face with a somewhat successful year. Reputation intact. Crash and burn and Wellman's ego goes for the double down again.

I view Wellman and definitely hatch as untouchable. They are not going anywhere unless by choice. Who are we kidding.

Also I always root for the win regardless. So maybe that influences my thinking. But I'm not going to sit here and watch 30 basketball games and root against wake forest on the hope that our AD will finally put his ego aside and remove the basketball coach. But to each his own.


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WFFaithful said:
The 22 win season is unattainable. We win 16 or 17 and Buzz is hailed as coach for life because of the progress made this season.
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The number is 19 from what i hear, and what i heard last year (13) was confirmed by a few others. Since internally we set the line at 17.5, 19 would not be unreasonable
 
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19 may not sound like much to us, especially with this schedule. It would be a huge accomplishment for Bz.

The last time Bz won 19 games in a season, Skip was still alive and Jim Grobe was the reigning NCOY.
 
I cannot deny that at the end of the Miami game last season I felt kinda shitty because I could just see Wellman using that marquee win to justify brining Bz back. This year will be the same way, if we get to late February with wins in the low to middle teens with a bunch of embarrassing blow out losses and we are up against a top 10 team, I can't honestly say that I'll be excited if we win that game and storm the court. That win win be used as reasoning to continue with this crapy crap for another year. But that is entirely different than rooting for the team to lose. That is rooting for Bz to lose so that the team can win. On the other hand if we go in the game against a top 10 opponent with 20 wins and we're on the bubble to make the tourney, I am all for it!
 
The biggest problem with the Wake fan base at this point is that it has not been insistent enough on changes in the athletic department. Wake sports have had declining leadership, and declining performance on the field as a result, for years without any accountability. This is entirely unacceptable by any standard or culture worthy of the name. The people responsible for it should be immediately dismissed (they should have been terminated years ago) and replaced with much more competent and accountable leaders.
 
palmab03 said:
The number is 19 from what i hear, and what i heard last year (13) was confirmed by a few others. Since internally we set the line at 17.5, 19 would not be unreasonable
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We also heard from insiders that the internal line changed over the course of the season. What is 19 now will become 15 later.
 
sailordeac said:
The biggest problem with the Wake fan base at this point is that it has not been insistent enough on changes in the athletic department. Wake sports have had declining leadership, and declining performance on the field as a result, for years without any accountability. This is entirely unacceptable by any standard or culture worthy of the name. The people responsible for it should be immediately dismissed (they should have been terminated years ago) and replaced with much more competent and accountable leaders.
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So how does the fan base be more insistent? Billboards and newspaper ads were insistent enough to be noticed by national MSM.

The base has been plenty insistent. The people in charge aren't listening.

Unless you're talking about the 1% of the fan base with the most $$$$. They could certainly stand to be more insistent.
 
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