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Thomas calling out the doubters MTOW

I mentioned this in the game thread, but my fear is that Devin already reached his potential last year, and some are expecting too much from him. He's a solid player, but I remember some saying he will be the best post player we've had in a decade. Seriously? With these new rules and Devin's temper/ terrible discipline, I see him unfortunately getting in foul trouble a lot this year. Every one of our opponents going forward will definitely make it a point of emphasis to get Devin in foul trouble because of our lack of depth of big men.
 
It's one thing to beat up on terrible teams. Once our guys start beating good teams on a regular basis I'll quit being a doubter. Right now we've only played two good teams and both games were losses.

Yup. Wake is improved but still has a loooooonnng ways to go.
 
I mentioned this in the game thread, but my fear is that Devin already reached his potential last year, and some are expecting too much from him. He's a solid player, but I remember some saying he will be the best post player we've had in a decade. Seriously? With these new rules and Devin's temper/ terrible discipline, I see him unfortunately getting in foul trouble a lot this year. Every one of our opponents going forward will definitely make it a point of emphasis to get Devin in foul trouble because of our lack of depth of big men.

These three games do make you wonder. He looked pretty dominant against our crappy schedule. If anything I'd say it's in his head as he has the skills. Given that his sister is an all ACC player (POY?) I'd think he'll be able to work his way out of this. It's not like he doesn't have someone to talk to about it.
 
And I posted this in reply to Woody's post on the game thread, but I doubt Devin reached his potential as a freshman simply because, even during his remarkable freshman year, we could identify ways he could get better, namely developing a right hand and a reliable mid-range jumper. If you have identifiable ways you can realistically improve, you haven't reached your potential by definition.

Of course, it's a separate question as to whether Devin will reach that potential. After all, such things typically require the help of an effective coaching staff. See McKie, Travis.
 
Travis is an odd case. Wants to transfer, convinced to stay. So do you work your tail off or coast? If there was a poll I think most would think he decided to coast. You get to be a senior and have not sniffed post season play, you'd think he'd want to make it happen and be the leader that takes the team there.
 
The idea that Devin has maxed out his potential seems a bit misguided to me. Like VaDeac said, his weaknesses are some of the most optically obvious and readily apparent of any player on our team: a right handed jump hook / post moves in which he finishes with his right hand, more consistent FT shooting, a 12 to 15-foot jumpshot from the elbows extended, more discipline on setting screens and/or rolling to the basket as the recipient, and -- perhaps most importantly -- more discipline on the defensive boards and avoidance of cheap fouls.

Is he going to grow to be 6'10 250? Probably not. He's never going to be a towering post player who can dominate on sheer size alone. But he's clearly added muscle from last year, and it should really no be secret what he needs to work on. Heck, every team in our league will try and make him go to his right, step out and make a jumper, knock down two free throws, etc.

In short, I like Devin's chances to improve if for no other resason than his success depend almost solely on his actually putting in the work to improve what anyone can see are his shortcomings. I'd be far more concerned about a post player who's already as polished, skilled, and disciplined as he's going to get.

Edited to add that none of this say that Devin resolved these issues over the summer; indeed, he clearly didn't (though he does appear much stronger and bulkier). That alone has to mitigate somewhat strongly against his long-term development. In other words, the fact that we all knew of these weaknesses by last spring yet most (if not all) of them are still readily apparent definitely is worrisome.
 
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And I posted this in reply to Woody's post on the game thread, but I doubt Devin reached his potential as a freshman simply because, even during his remarkable freshman year, we could identify ways he could get better, namely developing a right hand and a reliable mid-range jumper. If you have identifiable ways you can realistically improve, you haven't reached your potential by definition.

Of course, it's a separate question as to whether Devin will reach that potential. After all, such things typically require the help of an effective coaching staff. See McKie, Travis.

That assumes he has the potential to develop a reliable right hand and a midrange jumper. Plenty of players have limitations that they can't address for some reason by they max out what they've got. That's the question that seems to be asked.
 
[Redacted] coaches the big men personally.

Enough said.
 
Thomas has a world of potential, but needs to grow up quick. This team needs him to be a leader, and that will be hard to do from the bench with foul trouble or Ts.
 
That assumes he has the potential to develop a reliable right hand and a midrange jumper. Plenty of players have limitations that they can't address for some reason by they max out what they've got. That's the question that seems to be asked.

I think it's reasonable to expect a D1 athlete to develop a competent counter move with his off-hand and a jumper from the free throw line, yes. I'm not asking him to grow three inches or shave a second off his 100m time. These are reasonable expectations for high school level athletes.
 
Travis is an odd case. Wants to transfer, convinced to stay. So do you work your tail off or coast? If there was a poll I think most would think he decided to coast. You get to be a senior and have not sniffed post season play, you'd think he'd want to make it happen and be the leader that takes the team there.

But then he remembers that his coach is Buzz and is overcome by the hopelessness of his situation. Can you imagine anything less motivating?
 
I think it's reasonable to expect a D1 athlete to develop a competent counter move with his off-hand and a jumper from the free throw line, yes. I'm not asking him to grow three inches or shave a second off his 100m time. These are reasonable expectations for high school level athletes.

agree. there is no excuse for a player to be unable to make a 15 footer
 
Not even a third of the way in to his sophomore season and Devin's long term development gets called out? Seems a bit premature.
 
I think it's reasonable to expect a D1 athlete to develop a competent counter move with his off-hand and a jumper from the free throw line, yes. I'm not asking him to grow three inches or shave a second off his 100m time. These are reasonable expectations for high school level athletes.

I think it's reasonable to expect him to try, and to put in the hours, practice, etc. pursuant to that goal, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will succeed. I think that's the worry. There are plenty of players who just needed to learn how to dribble with their head up, make a 15 footer, add 15 pounds of strength, add 5% to their FT shooting, blah blah who -- for whatever reason -- just never could.

I mean, I assume most people here played at least one sport in high school. Think back to when you were an athlete; you probably knew the various reasons why you'd be rooting for Wake's [insert sport] team as opposed to playing for it. That doesn't necessarily mean you were capable of fixing it.

Obviously it's still incredibly early in Devin's career, but the worry comes from the fact that under the generally accepted growth curve of D1 basketball players, a huge proportion of any improvement would've happened already. We all know the freshman-become-sophomores thing (as RJ likes to quote about 8 bazillion times, often with little to no context whatsoever). There's a reason for that; that first summer is the first time the player (i) has experienced playing against other D1 players in actual, competitive games; (ii) has worked with a D1 coaching staff which, presumably, has explained and identified to the player the various weaknesses exploited by said competition; and (iii) is thus the player's first chance to utilize D1 facilities, training methods, etc. to improve on those weaknesses.

Bottom line: it's early, Devin looks stronger and more aggressive, but still lacking in certain skills that we all saw with our own eyes last season. Let's hope he still has a ceiling to improve on those areas.
 
Travis is an odd case. Wants to transfer, convinced to stay. So do you work your tail off or coast? If there was a poll I think most would think he decided to coast. You get to be a senior and have not sniffed post season play, you'd think he'd want to make it happen and be the leader that takes the team there.

Early favorite for the Chris King Enigma of the Year award.
 
^ True. But do you remember how he flatlined after being named ACC rookie of the year?
 
I mentioned this in the game thread, but my fear is that Devin already reached his potential last year, and some are expecting too much from him. He's a solid player, but I remember some saying he will be the best post player we've had in a decade. Seriously? With these new rules and Devin's temper/ terrible discipline, I see him unfortunately getting in foul trouble a lot this year. Every one of our opponents going forward will definitely make it a point of emphasis to get Devin in foul trouble because of our lack of depth of big men.

Has Andre Thomas gone to his right yet. His only move is to his left and it does not take a good coach very long to figure our how to defend that. Meanwhile he must be prone to foul as he did not play many minutes this weekend and his stat line read like he played one game not three.
 
Devin really has not developed a hook shot either. His main move is to quickly spin "underneath" his defender, which I'm afraid is not going to be as effective this year. He very rarely vertically goes over the top of the defender to get a bucket. Hopefully he proves me wrong.
 
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