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Time to eliminate the Liberty University Football series

73deac said:
Agree 100% with mebanedeac. I've always had a problem understanding how it is logical to ostracize a group of people that are intolerant by ostracizing that group of people by being intolerant yourself? My intolerance is more justified than your intolerance is not fact but opinion. And one day a "superior" group may lay your opinion or thoughts aside and it will be hard to defend your position when you've stated it's acceptable to do that very thing.
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Ahhh the good old "your intolerance of intolerance is unbecoming" argument.

Didn't take long for that one to pop up.

I'm not suggesting we alienate Liberty students from society, simply that we not assist them in making bank in athletic events.
 
I agree with the original post. Drop Liberty. As for the intolerance of intolerance argument, I am reminded of an Isaac Asimov quote, "There is a cult of ignorance in the the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
 
It is interesting that we have this sporting connection with a school we are so diametrically opposed with on a social-political level. As far as I can tell, it's a very recent series in both basketball and football.

It's certainly not unique or unprecedented in collegiate athletics. There are plenty of Liberty-esque schools that fill their athletic schedules year-in and year-out.

This thread did get me thinking, though. Since Hatch (and the University) has publicly denounced social stances that Liberty seemingly embraces, I wonder how much momentum would be required to cancel the series in the future. I think a group of organized students and athletes could get the job done if they put in the effort. But it's hypothetically moot - I just don't think there's much incentive or motivation for them do so. No one really GAF about Liberty.

Have any other schools had successful protests against playing certain opponents?
 
macktheknife said:
Because some things cannot be tolerated. White supremecy being one.
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I suspect that 98% of the faculty and student body at Liberty abominate "white supremacy" as much as you. Furthermore, it is disingenuous to equate conservative Christians with such. These kind of broad sweeping generalizations fuel hatred and division and are contrary to truth. It should be beneath a person loyal to a sophisticated institution like Wake Forest.
 
Lohengrin said:
What has Liberty or Falwell Jr. done that is so egregious to bring this up now, as opposed to years ago? Some flap that I haven't heard about?
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Yeah, please provide examples, so we can be better informed on this. I'm being serious too, if there are real examples of support of white supremacy, etc. coming from Liberty I'm all for dropping it.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
But yeah as far as paying Liberty to play football or basketball I️ would prefer we play (and pay) another school.
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Does Wake pay Liberty for the "privilege" of this 2-for-1 series? I truly hope not, but some quick research suggests that it may be the case. For example, UVA has six contests with Liberty over the next 13 years. Under these separate 2-for-1 deals, UVA will be paying Liberty $500,000 to play in Charlottesville in 2018, 2020, and 2030 and $700,000 in 2019. Liberty will pay Virginia $150,000 to travel to Lynchburg in 2027, and $250,000 for the 2029 game. (link)

Personally, I would much prefer to play (and pay) almost anyone else. For instance, other non-P5 FBS schools that seem far more appealing to me include Rice (TX), Cincinnati (OH), Tulane (LA), SMU (TX), and Memphis (TN). Not sure how many would agree to a 2-for-1 series, though.

Somewhat depressingly, Wake appears to have been Liberty's first (now current) P5 opponent going back to their 1999 season (link).

2006: @WF - Wake won 34-14
2007:
2008:
2009: @WVU
2010:
2011: @NC State
2012: @WF - Wake won 20-17
2013:
2014: @UNC
2015: @WVU
2016: @VT
2017: @Baylor

Liberty is transitioning from FCS to FBS, and is scheduled to be an independent FBS football program beginning in 2019. FWIW, their future schedules are posted here.

2018: @UVA, @Auburn, @Army
2019: Syracuse, @Rutgers, @BYU, @UVA
2020: @VT, @Syracuse, @UVA, @NC State
2021: @Syracuse, @Army
2022: @WF, BYU, VT
2023: none scheduled
2024: none scheduled
2025: WF, @Army, @Duke
2026: @WF, Duke, Army
2027: @Duke, UVA, @VT
2028: @VT
2029: @VT, UVA
2030: VT, @UVA
 
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As far as I can tell, the earliest we played Liberty in basketball was 1997, and football was 2006. Is there an earlier connection than that?
 
mebanedeac said:
Bigotry, hatred, prejudice come in many forms. None are exempt from these evils. The practice of tolerance only toward those who share our perspectives is in fact the very thing we oppose as prejudice. The path to the triumph of truth is to prove people wrong by our ideas and by our actions, not by exclusion and name-calling. Welcome them, treat them kindly, compete hard and defeat them soundly, be gracious in victory and offer to debate their core values. That is how you overcome evil, not with evil but with good.
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Buckwild said:
Thank you for posting this. I have a hope that people will be shown this fallacy in their own thoughts that permeate society today. This is where I stand because at the end of the day, whether it's as vocal as this situation or hidden behind closed doors, no football games would be able to be played if the standard above is used.
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73deac said:
Agree 100% with mebanedeac. I've always had a problem understanding how it is logical to ostracize a group of people that are intolerant by ostracizing that group of people by being intolerant yourself? My intolerance is more justified than your intolerance is not fact but opinion. And one day a "superior" group may lay your opinion or thoughts aside and it will be hard to defend your position when you've stated it's acceptable to do that very thing.
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You fellas should try posting on the tunnels.
 
And this thread should be taken to the tunnels for that matter.
 
Lohengrin said:
What has Liberty or Falwell Jr. done that is so egregious to bring this up now, as opposed to years ago? Some flap that I haven't heard about?
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Liberty's founder blamed gays for 9/11, for starters, and his son has done nothing but prosper on the backs of the mindless fools who followed his father and others like him. So fuck their whole family, and their "school."

Oh, and I support tolerance of ideas and opinions that are different than mine. I do not support tolerance of bullshit, bigotry, and lies.
 
wakelaw13 said:
Liberty's founder blamed gays for 9/11, for starters, and his son has done nothing but prosper on the backs of the mindless fools who followed his father and others like him. So fuck their whole family, and their "school."

Oh, and I support tolerance of ideas and opinions that are different than mine. I do not support tolerance of bullshit, bigotry, and lies.
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So, we shouldn't play any school that there founder has said or done anything considered racist, homophobic, etc.? Guess we won't be playing UVa anymore.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
So, we shouldn't play any school that there founder has said or done anything considered racist, homophobic, etc.? Guess we won't be playing UVa anymore.
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Great example of "reduction to absurdity." I don't think UVA can be compared to Liberty, nor Jerry Falwell to Thomas Jefferson. I can't believe I have to even say that.
 
wakelaw13 said:
Great example of "reduction to absurdity." I don't think UVA can be compared to Liberty, nor Jerry Falwell to Thomas Jefferson. I can't believe I have to even say that.
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Yet there are those who wish to remove anything about Jefferson from Uva.

Look I don't agree with what he said about gays at all. It is kind of ironic that a school founded by white Southern Baptists back in the 1800's, who I'm sure had at least as harsh of a view on gays as Falwell, shouldn't play a school whose founder had the same backward views.
 
CantStandYa said:
Yeah, because all of the fucked up shit that Falwell said and did prior to these last few months - and the horrible things that Liberty represents - wasn't worth our scorn and derision already.
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God Bless you--Amen!
 
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