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Tunnels Gun Rights Thread

This isn't what Scalia meant and you know that.

Ive already said that the second amendment can be regulated and agree that common sense regulation makes sense. A liability policy doesn't fall under that category in my opinion.

There's a huge difference. Poll taxes are settled US law.

I bet among the "common sense regulations" you allude to are background checks. You have to pay for the background check. It's been in existence since the 90s and the USSC has not overturned them or demanded that they be free.

Thus your point doesn't hold water.
 
Again, a background check is a one time minimally expensive common sense regulation. You're talking about an annual fee. I never said you can't regulate the second amendment.
 
You're requiring gun owners to pay an annual fee for a Constitutional right.

I'm with RJ on this one. The gun itself isn't free, you still have to buy it to exercise the constitutional right. Same with the ammo and CCP processing fees. And both the gun and ammo are taxed. How is insurance any different? Plus (and I can't believe i am saying this), Obamacare precedent already blurred the lines between rights, insurance, taxes, and mandates. Requiring insurance for gun owners is a no-brainer (and I own multiple guns).

But really what we need (in conjunction with the insurance) are gunshop laws like dramshop laws. If you transfer a gun to someone who kills someone else with that gun who with reasonable investigation should not have received the gun (like a bar serving someone who with reasonable investigation should not have been sold alcohol), then you should be civilly liable to the victim's estate.
 
Again, a background check is a one time minimally expensive common sense regulation. You're talking about an annual fee. I never said you can't regulate the second amendment.

That's irrelevant to your position of paying a fee to enjoy a constitutional right. What your position really is "it's wrong to have to pay more than I want to pay."

RE: Do voter ID laws deny anyone the right to vote? I showed you how tens of thousands of citizens (this number may be much bigger due to naturalized citizens not being able to get birth certificates, etc., from their home countries) would be denied the right to vote by not having the requisite documents to get state IDs. Another barrier to getting state IDs is that many states have closed DMV offices making getting to an office a true hardship on hundreds of thousands and probably millions of Americans.
 
I'm with RJ on this one. The gun itself isn't free, you still have to buy it to exercise the constitutional right. Same with the ammo and CCP processing fees. And both the gun and ammo are taxed. How is insurance any different? Plus (and I can't believe i am saying this), Obamacare precedent already blurred the lines between rights, insurance, taxes, and mandates. Requiring insurance for gun owners is a no-brainer (and I own multiple guns).

But really what we need (in conjunction with the insurance) are gunshop laws like dramshop laws. If you transfer a gun to someone who kills someone else with that gun who with reasonable investigation should not have received the gun (like a bar serving someone who with reasonable investigation should not have been sold alcohol), then you should be civilly liable to the victim's estate.

Good post.
 
Classic RJ pivot.

How did I pivot?

As 2&2 said, a gun isn't free. To exert your 2nd Amendment right, you have to spend money. To use a gun, you either have to spend money on prepared ammo or the ingredients for you to make your own. Thus your position on cost has no validity.
 
A bit surprised 2 + 2 is adopting that position but I agree, makes sense to me.
 
I love it when issues aren't easily divided by party lines. The blindly partisan get so confused. Hasn't happened here yet, but I hope it does.
 
Why US liberals are now buying guns too
Lara Smith, national spokesperson for the Liberal Gun Club, say her organisation has seen a "huge" rise in enquiries since November's election and a 10% increase in paid members.

Some of the new members are reluctant first-time gun owners, says Smith, concerned that isolated acts of aggression against minorities could escalate into something more violent and that a Trump administration will dismantle key constitutional rights, leading to a "more fascist rule than the US has ever had".

The club, which has nine chapters and members in all 50 states, aims to provide a forum for people whose political beliefs do not fit the traditional right-wing gun enthusiast stereotype.

The club's members have a keen sense of irony, joking in their discussion forums about drinking herbal tea and practising yoga "to get fired-up to hit the range".
Liberal preppers seem keen to underline the difference between them and their right-wing counterparts, who they tend to regard as paranoid, gun-obsessed conspiracy theorists.

He says it is "fairly easy to predict" an economic collapse under Trump but adds: "No matter what, the country is still going to be here in four years, there's going to be another election."

But some left wingers take a more pessimistic view.

"It just feels like we are living at the end of the world and everybody expects the apocalypse to come sooner rather than later," says Clara, the nursing student.

"So learning how to shoot a gun doesn't seem like a bad idea. Certainly more useful than learning how to make PowerPoint slides, or whatever."
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38297345
 
I know you're trolling/playing a role...

but if the government wants to kill you then they will do so before you have a chance to move, and your gun won't do a damn thing about it.

Tell that to Charlie
 
I find it funny you boneheads are still bantering this about without looking up current laws.
 
If anyone would like to speak to me, I will be at Shanes Sporting Clays east of Winston at 1300 on 12/24...
 
Meanwhile, Obama continues to pardon felons with gun convictions.
Nearly all drug related felons who were over sentenced because of the war on drugs. Not to mention that all those pardoned or commuted were heavily screened and scrutinized. We want to keep guns off the street, not keep minor drug dealers in jail for life.
 
Nearly all drug related felons who were over sentenced because of the war on drugs. Not to mention that all those pardoned or commuted were heavily screened and scrutinized. We want to keep guns off the street, not keep minor drug dealers in jail for life.

Seems we have a lot of people that were felons in possession of guns and people that used guns while committing felonies:

•Mark Lamont Byrd – St. Louis, MO
Offense: Possession with intent to distribute in excess of five grams of cocaine base; possession of a firearm during and in relation to a drug trafficking crime; possession with intent to distribute in excess of 50 grams of cocaine base
Sentence: 180 months’ imprisonment; five years’ supervised release
Commutation: Prison sentence commuted to expire on February 24, 2017.
•Kevin Wayne Daniels – Austin, TX
Offense: Possession with intent to distribute 50 grams or more of methamphetamine; felon in possession of a firearm
Sentence: 240 months’ imprisonment; 10 years’ supervised release
Commutation: Prison sentence commuted to 175 months’ imprisonment, conditioned upon enrollment in residential drug treatment.
•Charlton Oriaso Esekhigbe – Missouri City, TX
Offense: Possession with intent to distribute 50 grams or more of cocaine base; felon in possession of a firearm; Southern District of Texas
Sentence: 240 months’ imprisonment; 10 years’ supervised release
Commutation: Prison sentence commuted to expire on October 27, 2018, conditioned upon enrollment in residential drug treatment.
•John Aundo Gamble – Myrtle Beach, SC
Offense: Possession with intent to distribute five grams or more of cocaine base and a quantity of cocaine; felon in possession of a firearm and ammunition; using, carrying and possessing a firearm during and in furtherance of a drug trafficking crime
Sentence: 240 months’ imprisonment; five years’ supervised release
Commutation: Prison sentence commuted to expire on October 27, 2018, conditioned upon enrollment in residential drug treatment.
•Stephen Runea Glenn – Houston, TX
Offense: Possession with intent to distribute 50 grams or more of cocaine base, aiding and abetting; possession of a firearm in furtherance of a drug trafficking crime
Sentence: 180 months’ imprisonment; five years’ supervised release
Commutation: Prison sentence commuted to expire on February 24, 2017.
•Wayne Gross – St. Louis, MO
Offense: Unlawful user of controlled substances while in possession of firearms; possession with the intent to distribute cocaine base (crack); carrying a firearm during and in relation to a drug trafficking crime
Sentence: 248 months’ imprisonment; four years’ supervised release
Commutation: Prison sentence commuted to expire on October 27, 2018, conditioned upon enrollment in residential drug treatment.
•Tony Orlando Hughes – Newport News, VA
Offense: Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute and distribute cocaine and cocaine base; distribute cocaine base (22 counts); distribute cocaine (two counts); possession of firearm during and in relation to a drug trafficking crime (eight counts); possess with intent to distribute cocaine (three counts)
Sentence: 2,616 months’ imprisonment; 10 years’ supervised release
Commutation: Prison sentence commuted to 360 months’ imprisonment.
•Gerald Jerome Johnson – Jamestown, ND
Offense: Possession with intent to distribute a controlled substance; possession of a firearm in furtherance of a drug trafficking crime; possession of a firearm by a convicted felon
Sentence: Life plus 25 years’ imprisonment
Commutation: Prison sentence commuted to 300 months’ imprisonment.
•Jaleel Abdul Lafi, III – Hopkins Park, IL
Offense: Distribution of five or more grams of cocaine base (“crack”) (three counts); distribution of 50 or more grams of cocaine base (“crack”); possession of a firearm in relation to drug trafficking crime
Sentence: 180 months’ imprisonment; five years’ supervised release
Commutation: Prison sentence commuted to expire on February 24, 2017.
•Bobby Earl Lee – St. Petersburg, FL
Offense: Possession with the intent to distribute 50 grams or more of cocaine base; possession with the intent to distribute five grams or more of cocaine base; possession of a firearm in relation to a drug trafficking crime
Sentence: Life plus 60 months’ imprisonment
Commutation: Prison sentence commuted to 360 months’ imprisonment, conditioned upon enrollment in residential drug treatment.
•Rico Mayo – Benicia, CA
Offense: Possession of five or more grams of cocaine base; use of a firearm during and in relation to a drug trafficking crime; possession with intent to distribute cocaine base
Sentence: 420 months’ imprisonment; five years’ supervised release
Commutation: Prison sentence commuted to expire on February 24, 2017.
•Terrance Ramon Merritt – Fort Walton Beach, FL
Offense: Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute 5 kilograms or more of a mixture and substance containing a detectable amount of cocaine, 50 grams or more of a mixture and substance containing cocaine base; 3,4 methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) and marijuana; possession with intent to distribute 500 grams or more of a mixture and substance containing a detectable amount of cocaine, a detectable amount of MDMA and a detectable amount of marijuana; possession of a firearm by a convicted felon
Sentence: Life imprisonment; 10 years’ supervised release
Commutation: Prison sentence commuted to 262 months’ imprisonment, conditioned upon enrollment in residential drug treatment.
•Ernest Moore, Jr. – Tuskegee, AL
Offense: Distribution of cocaine base (two counts); possession with intent to distribute cocaine base (two counts); carrying a firearm in connection with a drug trafficking offense
Sentence: 180 months’ imprisonment; five years’ supervised release
Commutation Grant: Prison sentence commuted to expire on February 24, 2017.
•Anthony Pender – Laurel, MD
Offense: Possession of a firearm by convicted felon; possession with intent to distribute 50 grams or more of cocaine base
Sentence: Life imprisonment; 10 years’ supervised release
Commutation Grant: Prison sentence commuted to 188 months’ imprisonment, conditioned upon enrollment in residential drug treatment.
•Reisa Lynn Pettiette – Athens, TX
Offense: Conspiracy to manufacture, distribute and possess with intent to manufacture and distribute methamphetamine; conspiracy to possess a listed chemical knowing it will be used to manufacture a controlled substance; possession of a listed chemical with intent to manufacture a controlled substance; possession and distribution of a listed chemical with intent to manufacture a controlled substance; possession of an unregistered firearm; use, carrying, and possession of a firearm in furtherance of a drug trafficking crime
Sentence: 240 months’ imprisonment; five years’ supervised release
Commutation Grant: Prison sentence commuted to expire on February 24, 2017.
•Leon Smallwood – Alton, IL
Offense: Conspiracy to distribute cocaine base; distribution of cocaine base (three counts); felon in possession of a firearm
Sentence: Life imprisonment; eight years’ supervised release; $2,500 fine
Commutation Grant: Prison sentence commuted to expire on February 24, 2017.
•Stanley D. Thomasson – Poplar Bluff, MO
Offense: Used/carried firearms during drug trafficking crime (two counts); possession of Schedule II narcotic controlled substance (three counts)
Sentence: 421 months’ imprisonment; four years’ supervised release; amended to 397 months’ imprisonment
Commutation Grant: Prison sentence commuted to expire on October 27, 2018, conditioned upon enrollment in residential drug treatment.
•Hayzen Turner, Jr. – Adamsville, AL
Offense: Distribution of a mixture and substance containing cocaine base (three counts); distribution of 50 grams or more of a mixture and substance containing cocaine base (two counts); possession with intent to distribute a quantity of a mixture and substance containing cocaine base, cocaine hydrochloride and marijuana; carrying a firearm during and in relation to a drug trafficking offense; felon in possession of a firearm (three counts)
Sentence: Life imprisonment; 10 years’ supervised release
Commutation Grant: Prison sentence commuted to 180 months’ imprisonment.
•Daryl Wilkes – Virginia Beach, VA
Offense: Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute and to distribute cocaine base and cocaine; knowingly and intentionally distribute cocaine base (20 counts); knowingly possess a firearm in furtherance of a drug trafficking crime (two counts); knowingly and intentionally distribute cocaine (eight counts); knowingly and intentionally possess with intent to distribute cocaine base; knowingly and intentionally possess with intent to distribute cocaine (two counts);
Sentence: 952 months’ imprisonment; five years’ supervised release; amended to 780 months’ imprisonment; amended to 480 months’ imprisonment
Commutation Grant: Prison sentence commuted to 300 months’ imprisonment.

My money says they were probably undercharged on the gun issues. At minimum, I doubt many (if any) of those guns were lawfully purchased.

We want to keep guns off the street, not keep minor drug dealers in jail for life.

I generally support drug legalization but aggressive enforcement of existing gun laws. I would also support strengthening the penalties for the types of gun crimes listed above.
 
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My money says they were probably undercharged on the gun issues. At minimum, I doubt many (if any) of those guns were lawfully purchased.



I generally support drug legalization but aggressive enforcement of existing gun laws. I would also support strengthening the penalties for the types of gun crimes listed above.

Over criminalizing the possession of illegal firearms doesnt seem to be getting them off the streets very fast, considering every tom, dick and bubba outside the gates of Chicago has 3 or 4 guns a piece. Guns aren't drugs, illegally obtained firearms were almost all originally legally obtained. I don't spend much time in inner city ghettos and slums, but when I go, I don't see many shady looking Ruger and Berretta representatives.
 
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Bagging pigeons for Christmas dinner?

I missed out on the driven pheasant, but I have been known to bring ducks, geese, quail and venison to a holiday feast...
 
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