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Updates to the Joel?

So you’re proposing we settle for less than optimal in one aspect of the program…

I’m sure that will turn out well—just like the last 6 disastrous decades.
 
Bob Niedbala said:
I’d like a new, fit for purpose, aesthetically pleasing, well designed, etc etc arena as much as anyone. But you’re probably looking at $150 - $200M to tear down and rebuild. That’s A LOT of scratch for a school with a small donor base.

I’d almost rather do a solid renovation - whatever that costs it won’t be close to building new - and invest in coaches and other elements of the program - rather than a venue that’s used 20 times per year.

As others have said, a great coach is more important than the arena.
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+100%
 
donaldross said:
So you’re proposing we settle for less than optimal in one aspect of the program…

I’m sure that will turn out well—just like the last 6 disastrous decades.
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If we don’t have the funds necessary for an A+ coach AND an A+ arena, the program is in much better shape with an A+ coach and a B- arena instead of vice versa.
 
Update Joel- Good :eek:
Pay Forbes- Great :thumbsup:
Update Joel + Pay Forbes- SPECIAL :dancindeac:
 
I'm confused how some here think a P5 program would consider shelling out $150M+ for a new arena, but would then say "yup, that's all we have, pockets are empty. No more funds to pay a coach." In no way should or will those be mutually exclusive.
 
We will have 8 coaches the next 40 years. We can afford them all.

We will have 1 venue. Get it right. Pay for it. Borrow 50% of it if necessary. Don’t double down on crap.
 
donaldross said:
We paid 5 million to play in someone else’s venue that was all wrong for us. Now we have paid 6 million more for the land when no one else would pay $1. And duke has sold 300 million in shirts since 1990 and we haven’t.

This might have been the single “worst” business deal I have ever witnessed.
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This is a great example of your flawed logic. You think Duke’s success is because of Cameron. It’s because of K. If Wake had hired and stuck with K in the 80s, you would be on the Duke message boards telling them how they need a larger arena to maximize revenue and to consider how much Duke has lost in tickets sales, parking, and concessions. If Duke was coming off 10 years of Bz and Manning, Cameron would be a morgue.

I agree that 8000 seats is about right for Wake, but arena size pales in comparison in importance compared to the coaching staff.
 
Having a great coach is wayyy more important then what arena you play in.
 
wufu bufu said:
I'm confused how some here think a P5 program would consider shelling out $150M+ for a new arena, but would then say "yup, that's all we have, pockets are empty. No more funds to pay a coach." In no way should or will those be mutually exclusive.
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If you chip in 100M they won't be mutually exclusive. :cool:
 
bigboy8 said:
Having a great coach is wayyy more important then what arena you play in.
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It’s very easy to demonstrate. Just pick a college that has had multiple coaches using the same arena (Wake, UNC, whomever) and look at the wide variability in success based on the different coaching staffs. Put Doherty in the Dean Dome and they’re trash - put Roy Williams there and they’re a top 5 program in the country with multiple national championships.
 
donaldross said:
So you’re proposing we settle for less than optimal in one aspect of the program…

I’m sure that will turn out well—just like the last 6 disastrous decades.
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Not saying that at all, champ.

My preferences would be a new arena, great coaching staff, world class practice facility, chartered G5s for away games, robust NIL deals, our own network, dynamic marketing and social media promoting our players and program, and every thing else that would enhance our chances of winning.

BUT, I don’t think all of that is practical, particularly given our living alumni base is smaller than most schools undergrad population.

So, as I’m sure an esteemed lawyer like yourself can understand, there are trade offs to be made. There’s a need to prioritize certain things over others - and we all have different preferences - but I don’t view having a perfect arena as necessary to winning.
 
Rafi said:
This is a great example of your flawed logic. You think Duke’s success is because of Cameron. It’s because of K. If Wake had hired and stuck with K in the 80s, you would be on the Duke message boards telling them how they need a larger arena to maximize revenue and to consider how much Duke has lost in tickets sales, parking, and concessions. If Duke was coming off 10 years of Bz and Manning, Cameron would be a morgue.
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Precisely. See....duke football
 
wakephan09 said:
Precisely. See....duke football
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Yep. Many on here see Hinkle as a great design, and I agree. It was built in 1928, and from then until 1996 they had a bunch of coaches and went to 1 NCAA tournament. One.

Under Brad Stevens they went to 5 straight tournaments, culminating in back to back national championship games.

In college, it’s all about the coach.
 
K is vastly overrated. Bubas started the winning at Duke and had 4 final fours in 10 years before retiring at age 42. UCLA was the the way of NCAA titles. K has won 5 titles over 40 years (with better talent than everyone else) but his overall record in the NCAA is horrible for 25-30 of those 40 years. First and second round losses to Lehigh, VCU, Mercer, South Carolina etc. Duke has never played a true non-conference road game which wasn’t mandated. And that shit hole of a home arena he has played in has had much less of a role in his home wins as have the hundreds of Nike burger boys who have been lured to Duke.
 
The year K quit due to “back pain”, he had shit for players. Cameron was packed. And they lost. A lot.
 
wfu22fan said:
The year K quit due to “back pain”, he had shit for players. Cameron was packed. And they lost. A lot.
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I walked in to Cameron last minute for a bunch of games that year - it wasn’t packed.
 
What, if any, events are still held at the Joel outside of Wake and what type of revenue does that generate?

Is there a minimum size that needs to be retained to continue to receive those events?
 
Buttermaker said:
Over 9k barely, but for further comparison, VT’s arena seats 9,275. Undergrad enrollment of @30k.
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Cassell is another relic that needs to be torn down (60 years old). While a great, loud atmosphere for home fans, the seats above the portals are tiny, and the steps are hard to navigate (the steps are also uneven with a short step followed by a ridiculously tall step).
 
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