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US Israeli Embassy Moving To Jerusalem

Because you regularly use "unverified" when you must mean "unverifiable."

Something that is unverified can indeed be verified. A small part of the whole investigation may be verifying aspects of the dossier.

no I don't

as of now the Steele dossier is unverified

I doubt it can ever be verified

you think the Russian sources on whom it is based are just going to show up in Mueller's office or in a US court and testify on the "information's" "veracity," or provide documentation that will verify that the contents of a dossier containing Hillary Clinton's opposition research for hire are true?

right now the FBI probably has little more than Peter Strzok's assessment that he thought it was true; after what we now know about Strzok, who's going to believe any assessment of Russian intelligence connected to Donald Trump by this character?
 
no I don't

as of now the Steele dossier is unverified

I doubt it can ever be verified

you think the Russian sources on whom it is based are just going to show up in Mueller's office or in a US court and testify on the "information's" "veracity," or provide documentation that will verify that the contents of a dossier containing Hillary Clinton's opposition research for hire are true?

right now the FBI probably has little more than Peter Strzok's assessment that he thought it was true; after what we now know about Strzok, who's going to believe any assessment of Russian intelligence connected to Donald Trump by this character?

It’s amazing that a failed professor knows so much about investigative techniques.

Also, since I know how much you love admitting when you are wrong, you might want to avoid this article.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/...-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html
 
At least sailor admitted that the only reason the dossier is unverifiable is “I doubt it can ever be verified.”
 
sailor has a strange obsession with eating out hrc......just sayin'
 
Again this type of information wouldn’t have been enough to get a FISA warrant - at all.

Also the recent news about Papa shows that.....this wasn’t the only information that would have been used to obtain a FISA warrant (because it isn’t).
 
the unverified Steel dossier - no doubt vouched for by Strzok - and some Strzokian interpretive "analysis" probably served as the basis of the fisa court's approval of spying on Trump's campaign

the whole undertaking is hopelessly tainted and perhaps criminal
 
the unverified Steel dossier - no doubt vouched for by Strzok - and some Strzokian interpretive "analysis" probably served as the basis of the fisa court's approval of spying on Trump's campaign

the whole undertaking is hopelessly tainted and perhaps criminal

Thanks for your opinion. When you find some facts to back up your interpretation, please let us know.

Also is Strozk, Strozk, Strozk the new rube defense?
 
Also do you realize how hard it is to get a fisa warrant? You can't just make up some bullshit and get one.



In an article titled, “It Ain’t Easy Getting a FISA Warrant: I Was an FBI Agent and Should Know,” here’s what Rangappa wrote:

… As someone who obtained FISA warrants while conducting counterintelligence investigations for the FBI, I can attest to the fact that they not only don’t involve the White House, but the process includes too many layers of approval to be granted without strong evidence.

There are two ways to obtain a wiretap – also known as electronic surveillance – on U.S. persons (citizens and permanent residents), and both include the courts. For criminal investigations, the FBI can seek a warrant under Title III of the U.S. criminal code by showing a federal court that there is probable cause to believe the target has engaged, or is engaging in, criminal activity. This is a fairly high standard because of a strong presumption in favor of our Fourth Amendment right to privacy, and requires a showing that less intrusive means of obtaining the same information aren’t feasible.

The standard for electronic surveillance for foreign intelligence purposes, though, is a little lower. This is because when it comes to national security, as opposed to criminal prosecutions, our Fourth Amendment rights are balanced against the government’s interest in protecting the country. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) allows the FBI to get a warrant from a secret court, known as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), to conduct electronic surveillance on U.S. persons if they can show probable cause that the target is an “agent of a foreign power” who is “knowingly engag[ing]…in clandestine intelligence activities.” In other words, the government has to show that the target might be spying for a foreign government or organization.

But even under this standard, it’s not like the FBI can just decide to stop by a FISC to get a FISA warrant after going through the McDonald’s drive-thru for lunch. To even begin the process leading to a FISA, the FBI has to follow several steps outlined in the Attorney General Guidelines, which govern FBI investigations. First, the FBI has to conduct a “threat assessment” in order to establish grounds for even opening an investigation on potential FISA subjects. If a threat exists, the FBI must then formally open an investigation into possible foreign intelligence activity.

What does this look like in practice? Well, say, hypothetically, that a group of U.S. persons seem to have not infrequent contact with diplomats known to be Russian spies, whom the FBI are already monitoring. (Pro-tip: While it’s possible that such contacts could be accidental – I mean, hypothetically, the Trump inner circle could be a riot to hang out with socially – spies, particularly Russian ones, are pretty good at what they do and don’t spend time with people unless there’s a good reason.) The FBI might determine that, if the U.S. persons have access to classified information or could otherwise be “developed” for intelligence purposes by a foreign spy service, a significant enough threat exists to open an investigation – this would require at least one layer of approval within the FBI, and possibly more if the investigation concerns high-profile individuals.

The case still wouldn’t be FISA bound. FISA warrant investigations can’t be opened “solely on the basis of First Amendment activities,” so mere fraternization, even with sketchy people, wouldn’t be enough. The FBI would have to gather evidence to support a the claim that the U.S. target was knowingly working on behalf of a foreign entity. This could include information gathered from other methods like human sources, physical surveillance, bank transactions or even documents found in the target’s trash. This takes some time, and, when enough evidence had been accumulated, would be outlined in an affidavit and application stating the grounds for the FISA warrant. The completed FISA application would go up for approval through the FBI chain of command, including a Supervisor, the Chief Division Counsel (the highest lawyer within that FBI field office), and finally, the Special Agent in Charge of the field office, before making its way to FBI Headquarters to get approval by (at least) the Unit-level Supervisor there. If you’re exhausted already, hang on: There’s more.

The FISA application then travels to the Justice Department where attorneys from the National Security Division comb through the application to verify all the assertions made in it. Known as “Woods procedures” after Michael J. Woods, the FBI Special Agent attorney who developed this layer of approval, DOJ verifies the accuracy of every fact stated in the application. If anything looks unsubstantiated, the application is sent back to the FBI to provide additional evidentiary support – this game of bureaucratic chutes and ladders continues until DOJ is satisfied that the facts in the FISA application can both be corroborated and meet the legal standards for the court. After getting sign-off from a senior DOJ official (finally!), a lawyer from DOJ takes the FISA application before the FISC, comprised of eleven federal district judges who sit on the court on a rotating basis. The FISC reviews the application in secret, and decides whether to approve the warrant.

Now, it’s true that since its inception in 1978, the FISC has approved the vast majority of the over 25,000 FISA applications it has reviewed – some estimates put the number at over 99 percent. But that’s not surprising given the extensive process described above. In fact, if some reports are true that the initial FISA applications submitted to the FISC were rejected, prompting the FBI and DOJ to change its targets to the Russian banks doing business with Trump associates rather than the associates themselves (which would only require showing probable cause that the banks are a “foreign power,” which by definition they are), then a FISA application for Trump Tower, if one exists, would have been subject to even more scrutiny than would normally be the case.

In short, the FISA warrant process is designed to protect against the very abuse of power that the President has accused his predecessor of exercising. You could even say that FISA applications go through an “extreme vetting” process before being granted – something that the Trump administration ought to support.

https://www.justsecurity.org/39886/high-bar-fisa-warrant-monitor-carter-page/
 
the unverified Steel dossier - no doubt vouched for by Strzok - and some Strzokian interpretive "analysis" probably served as the basis of the fisa court's approval of spying on Trump's campaign

the whole undertaking is hopelessly tainted and perhaps criminal

“Probably”

Lol. What a clown you are. How embarrassing.
 
https://www.npr.org/2013/06/13/1912...ars-to-be-rubberstamp-for-government-requests

NATIONAL SECURITY
FISA Court Appears To Be Rubber Stamp For Government Requests

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June 13, 20134:00 AM ET
Heard on Morning Edition
Dina Temple- Raston - Square
DINA TEMPLE-RASTON

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has been under fire since one of its classified orders was leaked by a former National Security Agency analyst. Detractors have focused on the fact that nearly all the warrant applications brought before its judges have been approved.

LINDA WERTHEIMER, HOST:

It's MORNING EDITION, from NPR News. I'm Linda Wertheimer.

RENEE MONTAGNE, HOST:

And I'm Renee Montagne.

The NSA leaks revealing the broad extent of U.S. surveillance programs are also putting a spotlight on the special court that oversees them. It's called the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Created by Congress in 1978 to ensure the government doesn't abuse its surveillance powers, it operates in secret.

NPR's Dina Temple-Raston has this report on how the court works.

DINA TEMPLE-RASTON, BYLINE: The criticism of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court is simple: that it's a rubber stamp, and that the government always gets what it wants. And here's a number that seem to support that: 1,856. That's the number of applications presented to the court by the government last year. And it's also the number that the court approved: 100 percent success.

But Joel Brenner, the former general counsel at the National Security Agency, says this is not proof that the FISA court is a rubber stamp.

JOEL BRENNER: I can tell you that that court has taken a wire brush to certain applications that have come before it. The idea that somehow they put their stamp on everything the government puts before them couldn't be farther from the truth.

TEMPLE-RASTON: To understand why every application seems to be approved, you have to understand how the process works. The government goes to the FISA court with a proposition. It tells the judge, for example, that the NSA wants to track the phone calls and emails of someone they say is vital to an international terrorism investigation. Basically, according to Brenner, the government says...

BRENNER: Here's what we'd like to do, and there follows a back and forth and a discussion with a FISA judge, who, in many cases, has serious questions about what is being done or how it's being done.

TEMPLE-RASTON: That FISA judge is a regular federal judge who presides over day-to-day criminal and civil cases. In a FISA case, that judge is supposed to question the government's case.

Mike German is with the American Civil Liberties Union, and he says that isn't enough.

MICHAEL GERMAN: These are federal judges, and deserve some respect. But it's the process that's broken.

TEMPLE-RASTON: German is a former FBI agent, and now the ACLU's senior policy counsel.

GERMAN: I don't think it's necessarily a rubber stamp, but it's just that it suffers from these fatal flaws.

TEMPLE-RASTON: There are two fatal flaws, according to civil liberties groups. The first is that the court is secret. To get an idea of how secret, the leaked document about the NSA asking to collect Verizon phone records was a FISA order. One had never been seen publicly before.

The second problem, the ACLU's Mike German says, is that the process isn't adversarial. There isn't the equivalent of a defense attorney to challenge the prosecution's version of events. It's just the prosecution talking to the judge - a little like the grand jury process.

GERMAN: You have a prosecutor who goes in a room with 23 grand jurors to indict somebody, but the process - because it isn't adversarial - often doesn't come to the right result.

JENNIFER DASKAL: There are certain things that just can't be adversarial. They don't work that way.

TEMPLE-RASTON: Jennifer Daskal teaches at Georgetown Law School and used to be a lawyer with Human Rights Watch. She also worked at the Department of Justice.

DASKAL: What you have, I think, is an incredible amount of secrecy about how the court works - often for good reason. But as a result, there is this misperception and fear and assumptions that the executive always gets what it wants, and that the executive is always overreaching, and overreaching more and more with time.

TEMPLE-RASTON: It may be there are other ways to measure whether the government gets what it wants from a FISA court. The Justice Department says it presented 212 requests to conduct surveillance in the U.S. to the FISA court last year. It says the court modified 200 of them before they were approved. The problem: the public doesn't know why these orders from the government were modified or how they were changed.

This week, senators introduced legislation that would declassify significant FISA court rulings.

Dina Temple-Raston, NPR News.

sounds like the fisa court is there to help the government get what it wants, this can only be justice if the government is always right

“Probably”

no, in your case, definitely
 
Where was sailor's and the right's outrage over FISA during the Bush years?
 
https://www.npr.org/2013/06/13/1912...ars-to-be-rubberstamp-for-government-requests



sounds like the fisa court is there to help the government get what it wants, this can only be justice if the government is always right

Haha your interpretation of that interview is a bit of a stretch. They all basically admit that it's really hard to get a fisa warrant but they would like to see some reforms in the process (mainly secrecy). That's a far cry from "helping the government gets what it wants". That interview doesn't even sniff the details of what goes into getting one either (at least from what little I know). For example, from the previous article I posted:

The case still wouldn’t be FISA bound. FISA warrant investigations can’t be opened “solely on the basis of First Amendment activities,” so mere fraternization, even with sketchy people, wouldn’t be enough. The FBI would have to gather evidence to support a the claim that the U.S. target was knowingly working on behalf of a foreign entity. This could include information gathered from other methods like human sources, physical surveillance, bank transactions or even documents found in the target’s trash. This takes some time, and, when enough evidence had been accumulated, would be outlined in an affidavit and application stating the grounds for the FISA warrant. The completed FISA application would go up for approval through the FBI chain of command, including a Supervisor, the Chief Division Counsel (the highest lawyer within that FBI field office), and finally, the Special Agent in Charge of the field office, before making its way to FBI Headquarters to get approval by (at least) the Unit-level Supervisor there. If you’re exhausted already, hang on: There’s more.

The FISA application then travels to the Justice Department where attorneys from the National Security Division comb through the application to verify all the assertions made in it. Known as “Woods procedures” after Michael J. Woods, the FBI Special Agent attorney who developed this layer of approval, DOJ verifies the accuracy of every fact stated in the application. If anything looks unsubstantiated, the application is sent back to the FBI to provide additional evidentiary support – this game of bureaucratic chutes and ladders continues until DOJ is satisfied that the facts in the FISA application can both be corroborated and meet the legal standards for the court. After getting sign-off from a senior DOJ official (finally!), a lawyer from DOJ takes the FISA application before the FISC, comprised of eleven federal district judges who sit on the court on a rotating basis. The FISC reviews the application in secret, and decides whether to approve the warrant.
 
 
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