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VW caught cheating on emissions data

2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Solid work by TWMD.

That said, there are 11 million VWs affected by this. Compared to the amount of other cars on the road, especially from before OBDII standards were passed, and other industrial pollutants, this has about as much cumulative environmental impact as me farting.
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Yeah, exactly. I'm sure that was a lot more involved than many would prefer but events have complex causes, which often cannot be accurately compressed into sound bites or even brief answers, especially when your audience has so little knowledge of the situation like environmental impact, very similar to climate change in general. I did not mean to sound conspiratorial. I think the best way to describe the several causes of this disinformation campaign is the confluence of interests. Interests can coincide, and sometimes the result is simply a distortion of reality. That is what has happened here. This is made much easier when your audience is uninformed about many of the basic aspects opf the situation and you fail to inform them of facts that interfere with your version.

Many, for various reasons, are attaching themselves to the anti-VW cause. But that's only part of the story. Why is the media so happy to accommodate in a situation that they well know is far more complex and carries all sorts of long term difficulties and dangers? Short term profit is certainly a part of the answer but by no means the complete answer. I tried to point in the directions that might be pursued if one wanted a more complete picture instead of bowing to simple environmental and corporate competition.

Simplistic monocausal answers often distort more than they explain.


Sorry, everyone but it is much later here in Europe than it is for you, and I have some other things to take care of like easing the sheets and swinging the jib starboard. I will get back to the various points raised and try to answer them as soon as I can.
 
sailordeac said:
stay tuned, other automakers are soon to follow
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Where have you seen other automakers are involved? What I've seen is there is no indication of any other automakers being involved.

The revelation of this emissions subterfuge answers at least two questions about VW’s mighty little diesel. The first concerns urea injection, which every other modern diesel uses to pass emissions tests. (The 2015 TDI models have a new engine and urea-injection systems but for some reason still contained the devious code, according to the EPA’s statement.) The urea-injection systems help to neutralize NOx emissions, but they also add weight and cost to the car and also saddle buyers with yet another tank of liquid that must be monitored. If you run out of this diesel exhaust fluid, it’s like running out of fuel—on trucks with such systems, running dry on urea triggers a severe limp-home mode with a 5-mph speed limiter. That’s how seriously the EPA takes NOx.

Everyone wondered how VW met emissions standards while foregoing urea injection for the cited 2009–2014 models. As it turns out, they didn’t. It wasn’t magical German engineering. Just plain old fraud.

The second question concerned fuel economy. It’s been widely noted that four-cylinder TDIs tend to smash their EPA fuel-economy estimates in real-world driving. The last TDI Jetta SportWagen I drove was rated at 42 mpg highway, but on 60-mph two-lane roads I averaged more like 50 mpg. That’s a huge difference. Did running noncompliant emissions improve fuel economy? That’s possible. And if so, that raises an interesting question: When the cheater VWs emitted too much NOx, were they also emitting a lot less CO2 thanks to improved economy? Maybe the good doesn’t offset the bad, but it’s something to consider. You can bet that VW’s lawyers will.
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Link

Also, the 11 million number is a bit of a misnomer. While all TDI vehicles with the 2.0 engine have the software on them, even the higher levels of NOx don't violate any country's standards other than those of the US. The number is 482,000 (not saying that's a small number).

I did just see an updated article on the BMW X3, but there doesn't appear to be any evidence of an intentional workaround, and I'm pretty sure the X3 diesel has the afore-mentioned urea injection system.
 
Wait people are defending VW here?

I don't care how much environmental impact it had, I think its a pretty big fucking deal that a company designed their computer systems for the purpose of evading detection that they were violating environmental standards.
 
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2&2, what role should honesty play in a free market economy?
 
At the same time, I fail to see why this is a bigger deal than GM's ignition scandal, which killed or injured close to 1400 people and also involved an intentional cover-up.
 
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wfumike02 said:
At the same time, I fail to see why this is a bigger deal than GM's ignition scandal, which killed or injured close to 1400 people and also involved an intentional cover-up.
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who's saying it's a bigger deal?
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I'm not defending them, I'm just amused that this issue is what people look at to criticize a company that was, again, founded by Hitler.
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Hitler got the state to sponsor and build a car that most Germans could afford. Hitler wanted Germans to have the same access to cars as American citizens did. You know, Volkswagen - People's car.
 
wfumike02 said:
At the same time, I fail to see why this is a bigger deal than GM's ignition scandal, which killed or injured close to 1400 people and also involved an intentional cover-up.
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You're arguing against a straw man. Nobody is saying that
 
Shorty said:
Hitler got the state to sponsor and build a car that most Germans could afford. Hitler wanted Germans to have the same access to cars as American citizens did. You know, Volkswagen - People's car.
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-Oh right, so you've never seen the movie and you just happened to guess one of the biggest shocks in cinema history?
-Vader means 'father' in German. Darth Vader literally means Darth Father.
 
lbE08 said:
-Oh right, so you've never seen the movie and you just happened to guess one of the biggest shocks in cinema history?
-Vader means 'father' in German. Darth Vader literally means Darth Father.
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I'm not sure what your point is, but I studied German for five years prior to Wake, passed the literature course first semester freshman year, and lived in Munich for two years in the 90's.
 
lbE08 said:
who's saying it's a bigger deal?
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The media, for starters. This has generated more media outcry and has already created a bigger corporate shakeup. There are people saying VW as a company won't survive this. Right now VW is the #1 automaker in the world. Nobody ever said that about GM (over the ignition scandal, at least).
 
My first car was a used jetta it was sweet an I love it but it was a real pain in the ass would never own vw again and figured that out in about 2002. Vw os for insecure chicks now mostly right?
 
Knight said:
This thread is millennial as fuck.
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ImTheCaptain said:
So TWMD works for VW. How about that?
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Lolol, looks like those posts sailed right over y'all's heads.
Shorty said:
I'm not sure what your point is, but I studied German for five years prior to Wake, passed the literature course first semester freshman year, and lived in Munich for two years in the 90's.
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Lolol, another one.
HailToTheDeacons said:
All the #density.

This is incredible.
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This is why we have the internet. Amazing.
 
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