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Wake @ Duke - 3:30 PM ESPN2/ACCN

TheAbster said:
Fair points. I still contend this team dropped off a cliff after being 6-1. Schedule might have been a factor. But ANY win in Tallahassee is pretty damn impressive and we followed it up with easily handling Army and BC (who beat NCSU).

Whatever the situation, Clawson needs to fill a legal pad of items to be addressed in the off-season. And I'll state what is, I'm sure, VERY unpopular. If Sam wants to move on, I think that's a great idea! I think some others should follow suit.
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Only thrown 107 TDs. He sucks. Damn, some of you dudes are beyond stupid.
 


couldn't be that coach wanted to get em to the lockers for an end of season talk?
 
wfu22fan said:
Only thrown 107 TDs. He sucks. Damn, some of you dudes are beyond stupid.
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No one said he sucks. Stop being a Karen. I said if he wants to move on, I'm fine with it. I appreciate what he contributed at Wake.

But if you think this meltdown of a season makes us all idiots and stupid for stating the obvious, I'm not sure what to tell ya.
 
PhDeac said:
I think the WRs did improve significantly. Let's not forget where Greene and Banks were a year ago. But QB and OL got worse and RB and TE was pretty much the same.
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Greene was injured last year but was better 2 years ago than this year. He’s good on the 50/50 catches and deep balls, but he wasn’t very good this year on getting open. He needs another year at least if he wants to play in the NFL.
 
TheAbster said:
No one said he sucks. Stop being a Karen. I said if he wants to move on, I'm fine with it. I appreciate what he contributed at Wake.
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We love Sam, but Sam has made it clear he doesn’t want to come back, so why would we want him to come back? If he comes back, would his heart even be in it, I’m not sure. He needs to move on and we need to move on.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
We love Sam, but Sam has made it clear he doesn’t want to come back, so why would we want him to come back? If he comes back, would his heart even be in it, I’m not sure. He needs to move on and we need to move on.
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PRECISELY!!!
 
Colonel Angus said:
Just as expected. Good talk, Chris.
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It's the same shit over and over. You are just as much of a one-trick pony as you accuse others. Nobody is saying that our defense is good, and I was lambasting the embarrassing performance early, but they made enough stops for us to win the game and our offense should have scored more than 17 points in 7 possessions.

Our offense has not performed well at crunch time all year.
 
Without Hartman, we might have won 3 games this year. He’s that damn good. He plays his ass off. He led the ACC in TD passes in 11 games and would be very close to Maye in yardage had he played 12 games. Our defense put tremendous pressure on the offense to score close to 40.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
We love Sam, but Sam has made it clear he doesn’t want to come back, so why would we want him to come back? If he comes back, would his heart even be in it, I’m not sure. He needs to move on and we need to move on.
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we would want him to come back because he’s almost certainly the best qb we could have next year, faults an all. you could say the same thing about chris paul, or any other deacon great who has chosen to forgo eligibility.
 
IAppreciateIt said:
we would want him to come back because he’s almost certainly the best qb we could have next year, faults an all. you could say the same thing about chris paul, or any other deacon great who has chosen to forgo eligibility.
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He has said he doesn’t want to come back. It’s not like he’s saying he wants to come back and we’re saying we don’t want him. If he doesn’t want to, his heart isn’t in it and it doesn’t do him or us any good.
 
Against my better judgement (but I need to get these thoughts out of my head).

  • In both football and hoops, Wake needs the 'right' coach. That's not saying we are 'settling' for Clawson, it's saying I think he gets Wake, is not intimidated by the task of making us a winning program and that you are not just going out and pick up 10 impact freshman in a recruiting class. Prosser understood this, I think Forbes does as well. Makovic was a damn Wake alumnus, he didn't stay to build long term. We can't have a Caldwell, who never wins or just thinks winning once in a while is ok.
  • Most coaches have blindspots, a lot of things work but they seem to miss a key ingredient. It's not just this year, but Clawson needs to manage the ends of halves better, especially when we have, what is considered, and elite offense. I think he can change, IIRC we were pretty aggressive on 4th down on UNC because we had to keep them off the field, that's not his normal process. Just play to win the game on offense at the end.
  • Of course this is hindsight, but the floor for this team should have been 9 wins. Pick two of 3, we had Clemson, no question we should have closed that game out or made them have to score a TD at the end. UNC, defense slows them in the 2nd half and we can't close that one. Today, 1 or 2 1st downs and the game is over. Other than pulling out Liberty, we really didn't pull out games we shouldn't have won. 10-2 was in our grasp, not something that happens a Wake.
  • You have to play with the team you have. Poor defense, high powered offense, well you better be prepared to score a lot. I can't believe our team wakes up every Saturday and thinks we'll hold them to 21. I just assumed, as the season progressed, we need 30-40 to win. Too much 'pressure' on our offense? Please, their job is to score as much as possible.
  • Sam will go down in history as one of the Wake football greats, so is Rodney Rodgers. Great games, great memories but neither are 'the man'. It took a Childress, will to win, or Duncan transcendent greatness to get us to the next level. Who at the end is making the play on offense or defense to change the game? You need to have the supporting cast of good players but you need some guys that won't let you lose.
 
Deac83 said:
Against my better judgement (but I need to get these thoughts out of my head).

  • In both football and hoops, Wake needs the 'right' coach. That's not saying we are 'settling' for Clawson, it's saying I think he gets Wake, is not intimidated by the task of making us a winning program and that you are not just going out and pick up 10 impact freshman in a recruiting class. Prosser understood this, I think Forbes does as well. Makovic was a damn Wake alumnus, he didn't stay to build long term. We can't have a Caldwell, who never wins or just thinks winning once in a while is ok.
  • Most coaches have blindspots, a lot of things work but they seem to miss a key ingredient. It's not just this year, but Clawson needs to manage the ends of halves better, especially when we have, what is considered, and elite offense. I think he can change, IIRC we were pretty aggressive on 4th down on UNC because we had to keep them off the field, that's not his normal process. Just play to win the game on offense at the end.
  • Of course this is hindsight, but the floor for this team should have been 9 wins. Pick two of 3, we had Clemson, no question we should have closed that game out or made them have to score a TD at the end. UNC, defense slows them in the 2nd half and we can't close that one. Today, 1 or 2 1st downs and the game is over. Other than pulling out Liberty, we really didn't pull out games we shouldn't have won. 10-2 was in our grasp, not something that happens a Wake.
  • You have to play with the team you have. Poor defense, high powered offense, well you better be prepared to score a lot. I can't believe our team wakes up every Saturday and thinks we'll hold them to 21. I just assumed, as the season progressed, we need 30-40 to win. Too much 'pressure' on our offense? Please, their job is to score as much as possible.
  • Sam will go down in history as one of the Wake football greats, so is Rodney Rodgers. Great games, great memories but neither are 'the man'. It took a Childress, will to win, or Duncan transcendent greatness to get us to the next level. Who at the end is making the play on offense or defense to change the game? You need to have the supporting cast of good players but you need some guys that won't let you lose.
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I forget which one of the ESPN talking college football heads said it, but when we were 6-1, they said we should finish 11-1 and 10-2 at the worst. I thought, wow we are finally getting national respect and then we do this.:facepalm:
 
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They were right. We were favored down the stretch and all of those teams were worse than the FSU team we beat handily.

Finish 11-1 and we're talking about an at-large NY6 bowl berth and maybe sneaking into the CFP if USC loses next week.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
I forget which one of the ESPN talking college football heads said it, but when we were 6-1, they said we should finish 11-1 and 10-2 at the worst. I though, wow we are finally getting national respect and then we do this.:facepalm:
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I don't pretend to be a statistician but that whole "regression to the mean" is pretty powerful shit. :)
 
wfu22fan said:
Without Hartman, we might have won 3 games this year. He’s that damn good. He plays his ass off. He led the ACC in TD passes in 11 games and would be very close to Maye in yardage had he played 12 games. Our defense put tremendous pressure on the offense to score close to 40.
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Time after time this season the ball was in his hands with the opportunity to go win the game when we were trailing, and he never came through. Not once. So, he was really good right up to the moment you needed him to be really good. Then these things happened:

Clemson—turns it over on downs trailing in OT
Louisville—throws a million interceptions
State—trails entire 2nd half, throws multiple interceptions, doesn’t get it done
UNC—throws backbreaking interception protecting one point lead, gets ball back down 2, does nothing
Duke—no need to recap

Some quarterbacks come through in the clutch. Others put up stats but never get it done when it matters most. It is what it is. Time to move on.
 
DeacLaw05 said:
Time after time this season the ball was in his hands with the opportunity to go win the game when we were trailing, and he never came through. Not once. So, he was really good right up to the moment you needed him to be really good. Then these things happened:

Clemson—turns it over on downs trailing in OT
Louisville—throws a million interceptions
State—trails entire 2nd half, throws multiple interceptions, doesn’t get it done
UNC—throws backbreaking interception protecting one point lead, gets ball back down 2, does nothing
Duke—no need to recap

Some quarterbacks come through in the clutch. Others put up stats but never get it done when it matters most. It is what it is. Time to move on.
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Riley Skinner had a clutch gene, that Sam doesn‘t. Riley didn‘t always come through, but seems like we knew we had a chance with him in that situation.
 
DeacLaw05 said:
Time after time this season the ball was in his hands with the opportunity to go win the game when we were trailing, and he never came through. Not once. So, he was really good right up to the moment you needed him to be really good. Then these things happened:

Clemson—turns it over on downs trailing in OT
Louisville—throws a million interceptions
State—trails entire 2nd half, throws multiple interceptions, doesn’t get it done
UNC—throws backbreaking interception protecting one point lead, gets ball back down 2, does nothing
Duke—no need to recap

Some quarterbacks come through in the clutch. Others put up stats but never get it done when it matters most. It is what it is. Time to move on.
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He also engineered an 18-play, 6:30 drive for a field goal to salt the game away at FSU. Recovered to lead the go-ahead drive in the fourth quarter (75 yards, almost all passing yards) against Liberty. You have a point but if you’re going to say he never came through, not one time, I disagree.
 
wfu22fan said:
Without Hartman, we might have won 3 games this year. He’s that damn good. He plays his ass off. He led the ACC in TD passes in 11 games and would be very close to Maye in yardage had he played 12 games. Our defense put tremendous pressure on the offense to score close to 40.
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If the defense wasn't so poor, he wouldn't have needed a record breaking number of TD passes either.
 
I really don’t buy the “we fell off because the competition got better” argument. Duke is better than FSU or Clemson? We’ve looked like shit since the BC game, despite winning that game by a lot in the end. Our D seemingly regressed and our O just stopped showing up at times during the game. Sam stopped running, our OL’s effort was pathetic, we started getting penalties left and right and constantly turning over the ball. Clawson lost this team. Something changed. A team doesn’t just completely fall apart on its own.
 
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