Wake Forest Football Recruiting

[EatLeadCommie]

Until we start knocking off Top 15 ranked teams at least once per year we're not going to increase our numbers in seats or numbers in recruiting. In state recruiting has dropped off wth the ascendency of UNCCH, State and App all three of which are ranked whereas WF is not. DC needs to strengthen the program on the defensive side of the ball in a big way if we're ever going to make the next move.

And even then, I wouldn't expect much. Iowa State is ranked in the 50s right now even after their great season (which could still end up being a 4 loss season, but right now is pretty great).

 

[raldeac]

I was just looking at the recruiting class rankings. Besides the the top rated classes that we’re all aware of - Bama, OSU, LSU, UGA - I went down the list to check out the military academies. They’re not highly rated, but boy do they have big classes.
Navy - 68
Air Force - 57
Army - 87

Fwiw, Wake is tied with Navy as the 67th best class

I recall reading once that each new cadet/plebe, etc. must declare to go/try out for some sport. Could make for larger numbers.

 

[Deaconblue]

And even then, I wouldn't expect much. Iowa State is ranked in the 50s right now even after their great season (which could still end up being a 4 loss season, but right now is pretty great).

Recruiting success tends to lag on-field success to some degree. Play well, get on the radar screens of good HS freshmen, sophomores, then reel them in as recruits a few years later.

Clawson has raised the floor of Wake recruiting - no two star guys. Now he needs to push the ceiling higher and get some more 4 star guys like Greene and Groulx.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

I say it every year but there is very little difference between the 35th ranked class and the 70th ranked class.

Once you weed out the 5 stars and high 4 stars from your top-20 classes, it's essentially a crapshoot when ranking the rest of the class.

 

[DeacsOrDie]

Recruiting success tends to lag on-field success to some degree. Play well, get on the radar screens of good HS freshmen, sophomores, then reel them in as recruits a few years later.

Clawson has raised the floor of Wake recruiting - no two star guys. Now he needs to push the ceiling higher and get some more 4 star guys like Greene and Groulx.

Or Taylor Morin who was a 2-star but is better than Groulx

 

[CONeill]

I say it every year but there is very little difference between the 35th ranked class and the 70th ranked class.

Once you weed out the 5 stars and high 4 stars from your top-20 classes, it's essentially a crapshoot when ranking the rest of the class.

ding ding ding

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CreamyGoodness again.

 

[Deaconblue]

I say it every year but there is very little difference between the 35th ranked class and the 70th ranked class.

Once you weed out the 5 stars and high 4 stars from your top-20 classes, it's essentially a crapshoot when ranking the rest of the class.

I'd just like to see the recruiting classes look a little more like Pitt's #23 class this year. Three four star headliners.

 

[CONeill]

I'd just like to see the recruiting classes look a little more like Pitt's #23 class this year. Three four star headliners.

Pitt in the last 5 years: 34-31 overall | 23-19 ACC | 1-2 in bowls

Wake in the last 5 years: 34-26 overall | 17-22 ACC | 3-1 in bowls

 

[CamLemons]

Pitt in the last 5 years: 34-31 overall | 23-19 ACC | 1-2 in bowls

Wake in the last 5 years: 34-26 overall | 17-22 ACC | 3-1 in bowls

Now im sad again thinking about what Clawson's record the last few years would be if they played the Coastal instead of the Atlantic

 

[Tr1987]

The issue is the defensive side of the squad. The recruiting quality has fallen quite a bit since the start of Clawsons tenure. Mike Elko is an outstanding defensive coach. He needs a much better DC to turn that around.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

I'd personally be looking at strength and conditioning, as well as a couple position coaches.

We have been decimated with injuries over the last few years. This season looks a lot different if we were relatively healthy. Also, we'd be a playing for a chance to be 7-2 or 8-1 of we didn't lose our NFL bound receiver. I hope people don't underestimate how important Sage was to our success. A healthy Greene and Sage would've done huge things this year.

Shoulda coulda woulda but my main point is I don't think Hemphill is the main issue. In fact, I think he should get some credit for true freshmen stepping into veteran roles and exceeding expectations. We HAVE to get some speedier linebackers, but that is a recruiting problem, IMO. I guess I'm a Hemphill apologist but I don't think we have enough sample size to fire him. I don't count this season.

Get some faster linebackers( Hazen) and let's see if we can't keep our defensive backs somewhat healthy, and look out. We will be a good defense.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

I also don't think it's all on Hemp that we looked out of place at times this year. Yes, that ultimately falls back on him, but again, it goes back to slowish linebackers and TRUE FRESHMAN playing minutes that Clawson teams NEVER see. Hell, we had a walk-on safety start the entire season. Let's get some speed at LB, experience in the D backfield and then see how things shake out. These freshmen are going to be VERY good for us. They just shouldn't have been forced to play the role they played this season.

 

[Deaconblue]

Another way to look at the classes is that the Pitt class average rating is higher than the highest rated Wake recruit. Also, over half (13/22) of Pitt's class is top 1000 players. Wake has two in the top 1000.

Better player development, coaching, scheme and motivation will only compensate so much. Sustained success requires sustained input of talented players.

I have to disagree with Creamy. Getting classes consistently around #35 will lead to more wins than consistently having classes ranked around 70.

If classes between #35 and #70 ate a crap shoot, I would prefer to be rolling with consistent 37, instead of 67.

 

[skinnydeac]

Another way to look at the classes is that the Pitt class average rating is higher than the highest rated Wake recruit. Also, over half (13/22) of Pitt's class is top 1000 players. Wake has two in the top 1000.

Better player development, coaching, scheme and motivation will only compensate so much. Sustained success requires sustained input of talented players.

I have to disagree with Creamy. Getting classes consistently around #35 will lead to more wins than consistently having classes ranked around 70.

If classes between #35 and #70 ate a crap shoot, I would prefer to be rolling with consistent 37, instead of 67.

NCSU's last 5 classes have an average rating of #40. I wouldn't say they are more talented than Wake at just about any position despite a 25+ ranking differential. In those same 5 years Wake has gone 3-2 vs them.

It seems like unless you are a blue blood, the best approach is identifying the type of player that fits your program and minimizing misses or busts. If you can somehow have a season with relative good health and some veteran players, then you're probably going to be pretty good.

 

[Stan Gable]

Has Sage signed with an agent and is he receiving professional training? If not, I guess it is possible he can return if he doesn't get the draft grade he likes. Just don't recall seeing that he declared pro. Just opted out...

 

[skinnydeac]

Has Sage signed with an agent and is he receiving professional training? If not, I guess it is possible he can return if he doesn't get the draft grade he likes. Just don't recall seeing that he declared pro. Just opted out...

Looks like Sports Trust Advisors is his agent.

 

[CamLemons]

The issue is the defensive side of the squad. The recruiting quality has fallen quite a bit since the start of Clawsons tenure. Mike Elko is an outstanding defensive coach. He needs a much better DC to turn that around.

2016: 3 out of top 5 rated players were on defense. I'd do a top 5 production wise here but there's so much. Offense(Newman/Carney/Dortch/I'll vouch for just how good Je'Vionte Nash has been this year) Defense(Boogie/Ja'Cquez/Essang/Masterson/Tra Redd/Kamara)

2017: 4 out of top 5 rated players were defense. Top 5 overall players in that class production wise: 3 offensive(Sage/Roberson/Tom) 2 Defensive(Ja'sir/Tyler Williams)

2018: 3 out of top 5 rated players were defense. Top 6(if i left any of these guys off people would be pissed) overall players production wise: 2 offensive(Hartman/Sciba) 4 Defensive(Nasir/Bothroyd/Smenda/Johns)

2019: 2 of top 5 rated were defense. Top 5 in production 3 offensive(Greene/Morin/Walker) 2 Defensive(McCollum/Rucker) with me not counting Miles fox as a "recruit"

This is not rooted in fact. A very telling thing, shout out to sir Conner O Neal, this this line from his most recent film review: "It’s Louisville’s sixth possession and it starts with 11:21 left in the second quarter. For a Wake Forest team that had its coach admit last week that it wasn’t in game shape (as of Tuesday), that’s a problem."

That happens more often than we care to admit and that is asking a defense to fail. 2018 is the only year you can point to a defensive coordinator and say "hey that was the issue" and appropriately Clawson addressed it. This was a team that gave up 24.6 points a game in their first 8 games last year(and that's WITH a 62 point game against UL) and then you look at the final list of people out as the season went on: Sage/Scotty/cade wasn't healthy/CBS/Nate Gilliam/Tyler Williams/Sulaiman Kamara/Rondell Bothroyd/Luke Masterson/Justin Strnad/Nasir Greer.

We all pretty easily jumped on the idea of "wow they're down their outside receivers and 1.5 running backs, the offense probably wont be great!" and for a large part they weren't great. Clemson is clemson so omit. There was.. 1? game where the offense didn't just die for 2+ quarters and that was Duke. Syracuse the offense was a dumpster for over 2 quarters, Pinstripe bowl they threw 3 TDs in the first half and then just couldnt move the ball the rest of the game due to injuries and sheer ineffectiveness.

Duke, you go "wow 27 points against duke cmon" a reminder that 14 of those were kick returns for TDs so the defense gave up 13 points and sub 300 yards. Against syracuse, where Kamara/Nasir both went down, 17 points in the first half(where again the offense turned the ball over 5 times and scored 3 points), 13 in the second half. Pinstripe bowl 20 in the first half(not great!) but 7 points, 2 fumbles, and a missed FG in the 2nd half where the offense didn't do anything and the defense had to put their best corner at S because no one was left

Conor and I have both touched on the injuries for this year and also the fact that you don't really know who's out week to week with contact tracing(conor on that one) so again bit hard to blame a coordinator or talent when the 3rd/4th/5th string is walking out there all but 3 weeks of the year

 

[Complacent Deac]

I'd personally be looking at strength and conditioning, as well as a couple position coaches.

We have been decimated with injuries over the last few years. This season looks a lot different if we were relatively healthy. Also, we'd be a playing for a chance to be 7-2 or 8-1 of we didn't lose our NFL bound receiver. I hope people don't underestimate how important Sage was to our success. A healthy Greene and Sage would've done huge things this year.

Shoulda coulda woulda but my main point is I don't think Hemphill is the main issue. In fact, I think he should get some credit for true freshmen stepping into veteran roles and exceeding expectations. We HAVE to get some speedier linebackers, but that is a recruiting problem, IMO. I guess I'm a Hemphill apologist but I don't think we have enough sample size to fire him. I don't count this season.

Get some faster linebackers( Hazen) and let's see if we can't keep our defensive backs somewhat healthy, and look out. We will be a good defense.

I agree. I am not sure we fire Hemphill (unless we give up 55+ to FSU), but our defensive backfield was next level bad. We need some health (agree) and new players and a new secondary emphasis. That dropped Clemson touchdown where our safety essentially just ran away from the WR who was running a post route, like not even waved bye to him, set the tone for the entire season. Walk-ons will not cut it, either.

 

[Dekin]

I recall reading once that each new cadet/plebe, etc. must declare to go/try out for some sport. Could make for larger numbers.

Agree. Also, everyone at the academies is on scholarship.

 

[wfu22fan]

Got a commit from a 6’3” WR from Indy who previously had been offered by the service academies. Hudl looks pretty good for size and hands. Can high jump over 6 feet. Not sure about speed. Only a 2 star but looks like a good get considering the the timing.