• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Wake Forest Offseason Basketball Thread: Deacs in Inaugural Myrtle Beach Invitational

DeacsATS said:
Just felt weird. Praise of Nestor. Rips on Manning (and Wellman, to a degree). Talks about how limited the role is for Nestor. Finished by saying he feels good?

Was more all over the place than one of my typical posts (where I start by trying to argue one thing and then convince myself of something else by the end).
Click to expand...

You should bet that way. You'd lose less money.
 
Only WF fans would simultaneously grouse about:

a) How truly awful their basketball team will be;

b) Losing their 3 best players to early entry to the NBA and/or International Hoop.

FWIW, anything is possible, but Chaundee Brown is not playing in the NBA next year.

Also, while next year could be abysmal, can we focus on how bad we are going to be this year first?
 
Last edited:
RChildress107 said:
1. If that’s true, this is going to be a pretty good year. If Sarr’s good enough to go pro as well then it’s going to be a great year.

2. I think even if he rolls out Chill, Wright, Mucius, Massoud, and an unskilled big, the floor is still higher than [Redacted]’s first two years. Hopefully we never have to find out.
Click to expand...

I put the odds as better than 50-50 that a lineup something like this is on the floor this season.
BChill
Wright
Mucius
Okeke
Smart
 
Pilchard said:
Only WF fans would simultaneously grouse about:

a) How truly awful their basketball team will be;

b) Losing their 3 best players to early entry to the NBA and/or International Hoop.

FWIW, anything is possible, but Chaundee Brown is not playing in the NBA next year.

Also, while next year could be abysmal, can we focus on how bad we are going to be this year first?
Click to expand...

I agree. Don't think Brown will be in the pros next year - also wouldn't be surprised at all if he's a four year player
 
Highly unlikely that Manning is fired at the end of the season no matter how bad we are (and we'll be bad). Remember that Bz was not fired, but resigned.
 
Pilchard said:
Only WF fans would simultaneously grouse about:

a) How truly awful their basketball team will be;

b) Losing their 3 best players to early entry to the NBA and/or International Hoop.

FWIW, anything is possible, but Chaundee Brown is not playing in the NBA next year.

Also, while next year could be abysmal, can we focus on how bad we are going to be this year first?
Click to expand...

True, but we lost our top 3 scorers from last season... None to graduation. None to the NBA. I sure as shit didn't see that coming this time last year.

You're probably right on Brown... I'm just uber-bullish on his development this year. For no real reason than just looking at the comps of similarly rated recruits the last few years at ACC programs... Some big jumps in there.
 
DeacsATS said:
Not sure why I'm going down this rabbit hole, but...

1- We can have have a couple of guys be good enough to get drafted without having much team success. See BC last year (KP#77, 17-14/7-11 heading into ACC Tourney). And Hoard could be drafted largely on potential vs. results. I'm admittedly probably reaching w/ Brown, but I think he'll make a big leap this year... Probably not NBA level, but that hasn't kept our players from leaving in the recent past.
2- I disagree... That 2011 team was perhaps the worst Wake team ever (KP #259) and had a similarly young, but not wholly untalented roster. 2012's roster looks even worse, but was slightly better on KP (#211). Call 2020 (next year) somewhere in that range with the roster we're talking about.
Click to expand...

You should have trusted your instincts.

1.We have seen what Manning can do with one NBA player on the roster. Hoard will be six months older on Draft night than Collins was. If he goes in the top 10-15 it will be because he had similar production. If Chaundee is good enough to go pro after this year it will mean he was better than everyone but Collins on the 16-17 roster. If Sarr is good enough to go pro as well, then this will be the most star studded lineup we’ve had since 2009. I don’t expect the last two to happen, but it’s not my hypothetical.

2. I agree that the roster could be as bad or worse than [Redacted]’s first two rosters if Sarr, Brown, and Hoard all leave. I still doubt the results would be in the early [Redacted] range. Again, I hope we don’t have to find out.
 
RacerDeac said:
Yeah, I mean, at some level, at least we know that Wellman realizes the last 8 years aren't acceptable. That's reason for hope I guess? Plus, DC is buddies with Nestor. DC was buddies with Grobe too. He was probably less objective than he otherwise would have been.
Click to expand...

In Wellman We Trust!
 
Posted this a while back, but figured I might as well repost... It's probably the main reason why I feel like Brown will have a big year.

2017 ACC Top 100 (24/7 Composite) - Freshmen Stats
#1 - Marvin Bagley (Duke) - 33.8 mpg / 21.0 ppg / 11.1 rpg / 1.5 apg - NBA
#6 - Trevon Duval (Duke) - 29.7 mpg / 10.3/2.0/5.6 - NBA
#7 - Wendell Carter (Duke) - 26.8 mpg / 13.5/9.1/2.0 - NBA
#16 - Lonnie Walker (Miami) - 27.8 mpg / 11.5/2.6/1.9 - NBA
#17 - Gary Trent Jr (Duke) - 33.8 mpg / 14.5/4.2/1.4 - NBA
#27 - Malik Williams (Louisville) - 10.6 mpg / 3.8/2.4/0.2
#28 - MJ Walker (FSU) - 19.1 mpg / 7.0/1.7/1.1
#30 - Jalek Felton (UNC) - 9.7 mpg / 2.9/0.9/1.6 - TRANSFER/KICKED OFF TEAM
#36 - Chaundee Brown (Wake) - 20.9 mpg / 7.6/3.0/1.1
#40 - Nickeil Alexander-Walker (VT) - 25.5 mpg / 10.7/3.8/1.5
#49 - DJ Harvey (ND) - 18.2 mpg / 5.8/2.9/0.6
#63 - Ike Obiagu (FSU) - 10.7 mpg / 2.3/2.6/0.1 - TRANSFER
#64 - Chris Lykes (Miami) - 21.6 mpg / 9.6/1.2/2.3
#68 - Alex O'Connell (Duke) - 10.5 mpg / 3.3/1.4/0.5
#70 - Wabissa Bede (VT) - 8.3 mpg / 2.5/0.9/0.8
#72 - Darius Perry (Louisville) - 14.3 mpg /3.9/1.2/1.5
#82 - Jordan Tucker (Duke) - 7.0 mpg / 3.0/0.5/0.0
#88 - Jordan Nwora (Louisville) - 12.0 mpg / 5.7/2.2/0.4
#99 - Lavar Batts (NCSU) - 13.2 mpg / 3.7/1.2/1.5

Top returners by minutes:
Alexander-Walker (VT) - 25.5
Lykes (MIA) - 21.6
Brown (WF) - 20.9
Walker (FSU) - 19.1
Harvey (ND) - 18.2

Top returners by points per game:
Alexander-Walker (VT) - 10.7
Lykes (MIA) - 9.6
Brown (WF) - 7.6
Walker (FSU) - 7.0
Harvey (ND) - 5.8

For reference, here are the Top 100 from 2016
#2 - Harry Giles (Duke) - NBA
#4 - Jayson Tatum (Duke) - NBA
#7 - Dennis Smith Jr (NCSU) - NBA
#8 - Jonathan Isaac (FSU) - NBA
#13 - Frank Jackson (Duke) - NBA
#14 - Marques Bolden (Duke)
#24 - VJ King (Louisville)
#25 - Tony Bradley (UNC) - NBA
#27 - Dewan Huell (Miami) - NBA Draft after Sophomore Year - Testing the waters (likely back)
#28 - Bruce Brown (Miami) - NBA Draft after Sophomore Year - Hired an agent
#34 - Tyus Battle (Syracuse)
#37 - Kyle Guy (UVA)
#39 - Javin DeLaurier (Duke)
#44 - Ty Jerome (UVA)
#48 - Seventh Woods (UNC)
#55 - Omer Yurtseven (NCSU)
#57 - Jay Huff (UVA)
#58 - Markell Johnson (NCSU)
#60 - Brandon Robinson (UNC)
#66 - Matthew Moyer (Syracuse) - TRANSFER
#70 - Trent Forrest (FSU)
#74 - Taurean Thompson (Syracuse) - TRANSFER after Freshman Year - Seton Hall
#84 - Ted Kapita (NCSU) - Went Pro after Freshman Year - Congo
#88 - TJ Gibbs (ND)
#91 - De'Andre Hunter (UVA)

Of those players that have played 2 seasons of ACC basketball, here are there statistics for each year:

#14 - Marques Bolden (Duke)
6.5mpg - 1.5 ppg/1.1 rpg/0.1 apg
13.0 - 3.9/3.6/0.6

#24 - VJ King (Louisville)
13.5 - 5.5/2.1/0.5
25.4 - 8.6/3.3/0.9

#27 - Dewan Huell (Miami) - NBA Draft after Sophomore Year - Testing the waters (likely back)
17.4 - 5.8/3.1/0.2
25.8 - 11.4/6.7/0.4

#28 - Bruce Brown (Miami) - NBA Draft after Sophomore Year
31.9 - 11.8/5.6/3.2
33.7 - 11.4/7.1/4.0

#34 - Tyus Battle (Syracuse)
30.7 - 11.3/2.1/1.7
39.0 - 19.2/2.9/2.1

#37 - Kyle Guy (UVA)
18.6 - 7.5/1.7/1.3
32.4 - 14.1/2.6/1.5

#39 - Javin DeLaurier (Duke)
7.2 - 1.6/1.9/0.1
12.8 - 3.4/4.0/0.5

#44 - Ty Jerome (UVA)
13.9 - 4.3/1.6/1.5
30.8 - 10.6/3.1/3.9

#48 - Seventh Woods (UNC)
7.7 - 1.5/1.4/1.2
7.0 - 1.1/0.7/1.0

#55 - Omer Yurtseven (NCSU) - TRANSFER
18.9 - 5.9/4.4/1.2
23.8 - 13.5/6.7/0.5

#57 - Jay Huff (UVA)
Redshirt
8.8 - 3.4/1.9/0.3

#58 - Markell Johnson (NCSU)
20.4 - 4.0/1.6/2.3
29.1 - 8.9/3.4/7.3

#60 - Brandon Robinson (UNC)
7.8 - 1.9/1.2/0.8
8.6 - 1.7/1.4/0.6

#66 - Matthew Moyer (Syracuse) - TRANSFER
Redshirt
16.8 - 3.2/3.4/0.5

#70 - Trent Forrest (FSU)
15.4 - 4.9/2.7/1.6
25.6 - 7.8/4.9/4.1

#88 - TJ Gibbs (ND)
15.0 - 4.7/1.5/1.7
37.4 - 15.3/2.8/3.0

#91 - De'Andre Hunter (UVA)
Redshirt
19.9 - 9.2/3.5/1.1

The takeaway, for me, is that the only way you don't put up significantly better numbers in Year 2 (vs. Year 1) is if you go to Duke or UNC. I mean the improvement from Gibbs at ND was ridiculous. Also saw dramatic improvement from: Dewan Huell, Tyus Battle, Kyle Guy, Ty Jerome, Omer Yurtseven, Markell Johnson, & Trent Forrest. The only players that actually regressed were Seventh Woods & Brandon Robinson (both of UNC).
 
RChildress107 said:
You should have trusted your instincts.

1.We have seen what Manning can do with one NBA player on the roster. Hoard will be six months older on Draft night than Collins was. If he goes in the top 10-15 it will be because he had similar production. If Chaundee is good enough to go pro after this year it will mean he was better than everyone but Collins on the 16-17 roster. If Sarr is good enough to go pro as well, then this will be the most star studded lineup we’ve had since 2009. I don’t expect the last two to happen, but it’s not my hypothetical.

2. I agree that the roster could be as bad or worse than [Redacted]’s first two rosters if Sarr, Brown, and Hoard all leave. I still doubt the results would be in the early [Redacted] range. Again, I hope we don’t have to find out.
Click to expand...
CcGI.gif
 
DeacsATS said:
True, but we lost our top 3 scorers from last season... None to graduation. None to the NBA. I sure as shit didn't see that coming this time last year.

You're probably right on Brown... I'm just uber-bullish on his development this year. For no real reason than just looking at the comps of similarly rated recruits the last few years at ACC programs... Some big jumps in there.
Click to expand...

Dduu1fbX4AEs0pO.jpg:large
 
You know what I meant. Woods didn't turn pro, nor did he exhaust his eligibility. Congrats to him on getting his degree.
 
The more I watch our administration's actions and have followed this college basketball shoe scandal, the more I believe that the BOT made a conscious decision to abandon men's basketball as something that Wake found important enough to compete in. All decisions they have made since Bz fit in that framework. I do not agree with the thought process, but it seems clear to me that is what has happened.

If that is the case, following Wake BB in any way more than completely casually is probably a huge waste of time. They have not been competitive and probably will not be competitive any time in the future without absolutely getting lucky with a guy developing further than expected.

I also do not think that Ron Wellman or the BOT will come out and say this at any point in time, but rather they will continue to BS and sell the story that we are trying and there is hope for the future for the few people who still care. #newbeginnings RIP Wake men's basketball
 
DeacsATS said:
You know what I meant. Woods didn't turn pro, nor did he exhaust his eligibility. Congrats to him on getting his degree.
Click to expand...

I get your point re: Crawford and Moore leaving unexpectedly, but I don't think Woods should be viewed in the same way

everyone knew Woods would become a free agent eligible to go anywhere for this upcoming season which won't be the case for Brown, etc after this season
 
There are so many teams that have been better than us over the past 8 years who aren't involved in scandal though. Even if it were true, it doesn't excuse how awful Bedroom and Manning have been.
 
thatguy2016 said:
I get your point re: Crawford and Moore leaving unexpectedly, but I don't think Woods should be viewed in the same way

everyone knew Woods would become a free agent eligible to go anywhere for this upcoming season which won't be the case for Brown, etc after this season
Click to expand...
Knowing he could leave is quite different from expecting him to. I know every player on our team could declare for the draft next year...

Despite the different circumstances of how they left, the common denominator is a coach/program that people look for ways out of, even if unexpected and seemingly inadvisable.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top