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Wake - UNC Greensboro Game Thread

bobknightfan said:
Not in the player's own confidence in shooting his free throws. Anyway, are you talking about the coach's confidence in the player? If so, that's not what was being discussed. The coach's confidence in the player...or the player's confidence in himself... was not even part of the discussion. The original premise was that the player couldn't make his free throws because the player didn't have any confidence in the coach....not because the coach didn't have any confidence in the player....or the player didn't have any confidence in himself. This is totally ridiculous, in my opinion.
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Maybe my point was not clear. Part of my original comment was that, if a player is not confident in his coach or the system he has implemented, then their overall game skills could suffer...defense, fg%, and free throws. I said that a team like Duke seems to make a higher percentage of their free throws, especially in the clutch. I contend that they have a mental edge over most other teams because their players have bought in to their coach and his system and method of coaching. Think of it like this:

Duke player: "I play for Duke. Coach K is my coach and he is one of the best that ever coached the game. Our program rocks and people HATE us because we are who we are. ESPN sniffs my jock every chance they get. I'm on national tv every week."

Today's Wake player: "I play for Coach Jeff [Redacted]. Hey, we just beat UNCG...by a whopping 8 points. Tens of people showed up to watch me play. But hey, I'm on ESPN3 every week. People with XBox Live get to watch me play."

The mentality of the Duke player is the same mentality that I believed that Skip Prosser was building at Wake. That is a TJDK mentality, one that got us as THE game of the week against the goats and dookies. Now, with Bz, we're just LOWF. Surely, it has an effect. Go ahead BKF, flame on.
 
Carolina has beaten kenpom #1 Louisville on a neutral court, #11 Michigan State by 14 in East Lansing, and #12 Kentucky at home. The idea that we are as good as them is about as homer as you get.

We beat #71 Richmond in OT at home!!!!!
 
bobknightfan said:
Comparing the mentality....or anything else....that Skip Prosser built at WF with what Coach K built at Duke is rather silly.

For example, in all the years I've watched Coach K's teams, I've never seen a single Duke player pull a stunt like Trent Strickland pulled against Duke with that idiotic wide-open blown reverse dunk at a critical part of the ballgame. Was that an example of that "mentality" you are talking about?
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You must have missed the Josh McRoberts-era.
 
I think his point stands without the Skip paragraph. That part was pretty unnecessary IMO.
 
Man, there are so many things to critique about Bz's coaching. Pick one of the many that actually hold water. One of his god awful Colorado teams was 3rd/335 in country in FT shooting. I doubt he was inspiring confidence like Coach K into those kids as they were losing game after game. Bz's teams have, on the whole, been excellent at FTs over his career.

Now all of a sudden he has his best team of the last 7 and they are shooting awfully from line because he doesn't inspire them properly??
 
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bobknightfan said:
Great points. That our players this year are missing free throws because they don't have confidence in the coach is one of the most ridiculously bizarre things I have ever heard.
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So is saying that nobody has needlessly showboated at Duke while Coach Kry has been their coach.
 
bobknightfan said:
Great points. That our players this year are missing free throws because they don't have confidence in the coach is one of the most ridiculously bizarre things I have ever heard.
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You must not get out much. You don't get the point I'm trying to make so nevermind.
 
Now, I would admit BZ has responsibility for our low FT percentage due to the fact he plays Madison Jones too much. However, now that we have learned he doesn't get to pick substitutions...
 
I remember the play; I was there too. And I would also like to overreact to it.

That missed dunk directly led to the death of Skip Prosser.
 
bobknightfan said:
You are the one who must not get out much, if you have the audacity to compare anything that Skip was "building" at WF with what Coach K built at Duke. Skip's tragic death occurred after his 6th year at Wake Forest. In his 5th & 6th years, we went 8-24 in the ACC and finished last and next-to-last in the conference. The "program building" left with Chris Paul.

Skip was a wonderful person. If you want to talk about the quality of a person or how he represented the university, Skip Prosser was as fine as anyone in the history of Wake Forest. However, he was only an average coach...if that. When he had a Josh Howard or a Chris Paul, he could beat a lot of teams during the regular season. Even then, though, he couldn't win in the post-season. The 2005 team had arguably the best talent of any WF team in history....and couldn't get out of the first weekend of the tournament. There were two main reasons for that. One is that Skip's teams didn't play defense. They just tried to outscore opponents. You can do that when you have better players in games in December, January & February....but in March you eventually run into teams who have as much talent as you have, and you have to play some defense. The second reason is that mental toughness that you alluded to Coach K's teams having. They are mentally tough. Coach K's mental toughness is a direct by-product of his mentor's players' mental toughness....of whom Coach K was one. That's one big reason why the two of them have won so many championships. Skip & Dino's teams have never had anything remotely close to that kind of mental toughness....which is why they always flamed out in the NCAA.
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Your points are fair. Skip was a wonderful person although I never met him personally, my dad did several times and confirms that. Maybe I give him more credit as a coach than he deserves. We'll never know. But the bottom line is we currently have a coach that has no clue what the heck he is doing. He is inept, indecisive, and a poor decision-maker and I believe those traits translate onto the court.
 
bobknightfan said:
You are the one who must not get out much, if you have the audacity to compare anything that Skip was "building" at WF with what Coach K built at Duke. Skip's tragic death occurred after his 6th year at Wake Forest. In his 5th & 6th years, we went 8-24 in the ACC and finished last and next-to-last in the conference. The "program building" left with Chris Paul.

Skip was a wonderful person. If you want to talk about the quality of a person or how he represented the university, Skip Prosser was as fine as anyone in the history of Wake Forest. However, he was only an average coach...if that. When he had a Josh Howard or a Chris Paul, he could beat a lot of teams during the regular season. Even then, though, he couldn't win in the post-season. The 2005 team had arguably the best talent of any WF team in history....and couldn't get out of the first weekend of the tournament. There were two main reasons for that. One is that Skip's teams didn't play defense. They just tried to outscore opponents. You can do that when you have better players in games in December, January & February....but in March you eventually run into teams who have as much talent as you have, and you have to play some defense. The second reason is that mental toughness that you alluded to Coach K's teams having. They are mentally tough. Coach K's mental toughness is a direct by-product of his mentor's players' mental toughness....of whom Coach K was one. That's one big reason why the two of them have won so many championships. Skip & Dino's teams have never had anything remotely close to that kind of mental toughness....which is why they always flamed out in the NCAA.
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There is a lot of truth in this statement, as much as we might want to think otherwise.
 
deacvision7 said:
So you think Skip was average at best... but defend [Redacted].

Sense. That makes none.
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I don't defend [Redacted]. I like this team and I think they are playing fairly well considering their over-all youth. I want them to win. That is not the same as defending Bz.

As for Skip, he was a fantastic rep. for WF and, I believe, a genuinely good man. However, Wake did not play defense very well under him.
 
Wake had undersized guards and no inside "eraser" for most of Skip's years. Now, that clearly falls on the coach thru a failure in recruiting, but I don't think he was just a shit defensive coach.


And you have defended [Redacted] over the past few years, please don't pretend like you haven't. Own it.
 
bobknightfan said:
I'm not particularly "defending" [Redacted]. The last three years' teams were downright awful. I do think there were some extenuating circumstances involved, though. I also think that [Redacted] has to continue to make significant progress with this team or be replaced at the end of the season....and by that I mean win at least 18-19 games and make at least the NIT. There are 7 sophs and a freshman in the top 10 players on this team. It is an extremely young team....but is easily the most talented team we have had since Dino left. Due to that youth, I think the soft OOC schedule was a wise move. Let this young team get some experience and build a little confidence. I think both of these things are happening. We will know in the coming weeks just how well it is going to play out.

I don't know yet whether or not [Redacted] will turn out to be a decent hire. Like many others, I think it was mishandled. Wellman made two mistakes regarding Dino, in my opinion. 1) He should have made it clear after Skip's tragic & untimely death that Dino was only an interim coach. I think he had to name Dino the coach to hold the AT&T class together (though, in retrospect, it might have been just as well if none of them had ever come to WF)...but he should have made it clear that it was only on an interim basis. That would have given Wellman wiggle room to hire a different permanent coach the next year. And 2) After Wellman didn't do that, he should have let Dino coach one more year....then he could have made the change after a down year, rather than after an NCAA appearance. In either case, the probability is that [Redacted] would never have been here in the first place.

So why can't everyone hold off on the lynch mob mentality for the next couple of months and see how this team is going to play out? If it folds, Bz is going to be gone anyway....but if it turns out to be for real and goes 9-9 or so in the ACC and wins 20 games to make the post-season with 8 players who are sophomores & freshman, maybe he isn't as bad as all of you think he is.
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Some have invested so much energy in hating and ridiculing [Redacted] they cannot afford to think of anything approximating success. They would much prefer that Wake lose than that Bz succeed.

It is all out of proportion.
 
donaldross said:
Sorry, all things being equal in professions that are based on effort & passion, I want the 27 year old. This era in college basketball has proven that. Shaka, Brad Stevens, Pastner, S. Miller.

But keep hiring old guys & see how that works out for your business.
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Hey! As an old guy looking for work, I can tell you old guys can add a lot to a business. Experience used to be coveted and respected.
 
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