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Wake - Virginia Tech Game Thread

RChildress107 said:
Wake was associated at various points (to varying degrees) with the following top 100 players. I have listed their names, rank, and commit date.

4. Quincy Miller, October 2010
18. Jabari Brown, October 2010
24. Kyle Wiltjer, August 2010
27. Dorian Finney-Smith, September 2010
29. Nick Johnson, September 2010
38. Quinn Cook, October 2010
52. Jabarie Hinds, October 2010
53. Deuce Bello, October 2010
69. Julian Royal, October 2010
77. Ryan Boatright, October 2010
81. Naadir Tharpe, October 2010

That's 11 top 100 players that Dino had established relationships with and who were interested to varying degrees and all committed at least 4 months after [Redacted] took the job. Buzz either failed to sign them or decided to move in another direction
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That guy would be especially nice to have right now.
 
Interesting blurb I ran across today on Villanova's SBNation site about Tony:

"A quick nod to Tony C, the statistical darling of my earlier FanPosts – he’s still helping the team kill it on offense, but his defensive impact has pretty clearly slipped lately, both in the stats and on-tape. He can’t stay in front of his man, and isn’t generating steals at the same rate he was earlier in the season – and his lineups are letting opponents pour it in. Still, his lineups score 120 points / 100 possessions, highest of the point guards, and shoot 43.75% from 3. Their propensity for getting beat off the dribble aside, Tony C profiles as the anti-Arch – hates shooting, drives THEN passes, and helps the team shoot better from 3. Man, I wish he played (sustained - it was so much better early in the year) better defense, or could shoot. Is Phil Booth here yet?"

Pretty much adds fodder for both sides.
 
First question is where are you getting this list from indicating that Wake had involvement with these players? Just an honest question as I can't find the source.

RChildress107 said:
Wake was associated at various points (to varying degrees) with the following top 100 players. I have listed their names, rank, and commit date.

4. Quincy Miller, October 2010 - Everyone knew we weren't really going after Quincy Miller. If I recall, he was at QEA and did not have the academics to come to Wake. Ended up at Baylor.
18. Jabari Brown, October 2010 - From Oakland, CA, signed with Oregon. Transferred to Missouri. Doing well.
24. Kyle Wiltjer, August 2010 - From Canada, Signed with KY. Didn't play - transferred to Gonzaga.
27. Dorian Finney-Smith, September 2010 - From VA, Committed to VT - transferred to Florida. Could have been good.
29. Nick Johnson, September 2010 - From Gilbert, AZ. Committed to Sean Miller and Arizona. Doing well.
38. Quinn Cook, October 2010 - At Duke.
52. Jabarie Hinds, October 2010 - Committed to West Virginia, Transferred to UMass.
53. Deuce Bello, October 2010 - From Greensboro, Committed to Baylor, Averaged 2.4 points, Transferring to Missouri
69. Julian Royal, October 2010 - Committed to Georgia Tech, Averaged 3.2 points, 1.9 rebounds, Transferring to George Mason
77. Ryan Boatright, October 2010 - Committed to Connecticut, Doing well, Averages 12.3 ppg
81. Naadir Tharpe, October 2010 - Committed to Kansas, Doing well

That's 11 top 100 players that Dino had established relationships with and who were interested to varying degrees and all committed at least 4 months after [Redacted] took the job. Buzz either failed to sign them or decided to move in another direction
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Off the other list you provided, Marquis Rankin committed to VaTech, averaged 3 ppg, 1ast, left the team for personal reasons. Damien Leonard, committed to South Carolina, transferred to Furman. Trevor Cooney - the article listed his first interests as Villanova and Syracuse, Wake was at the back, committed to Syracuse, been very good. C.J. Barksdale, from VA, committed to VaTech, been solid on not great VaTech teams.

That's a pretty mixed bag, particularly for "supposed" top-100 can't miss prospects. But regardless, we have no idea the extent of the involvement we had with these players. We clearly didn't have any commitments from any of them by the end of their junior years. We've had other players commit in their junior years before, including Shelton Mitchell. But it doesn't matter, if anything the Dino/Prosser regime was known for going after highly ranked players. Some worked, many flopped. I trusted Skip with that process a lot more than I trusted Dino. Rankings aren't a substitute for talent evaluation. Admittedly, the jury is still out on Buzz on talent evaluation. I'm just presenting the arguments here. Would I like to see Wake getting a few 5-star guys in? Absolutely. Am I disappointed we couldn't get a top level big man to pair with Shelton Mitchell. Yes. However, I've also seen a lot of highly ranked talent flame out and realize that just getting commitments from top-100 players doesn't win the day.

If you seriously want to argue that Ari was some misused talent that Buzz mistreated, you're just undermining your own credibility. He was fine his freshman year. If you had watched any games, it was pretty obvious in his sophomore year that Ari putting the ball on the floor and making a move was not within his game at that point in time. He transferred and then flamed out at USC as well.

I don't love Buzz but I do think he knows basketball although his personality may prevent him from being successful. The proof will ultimately be in the pudding the last half of this season. The team either performs or it doesn't and then a decision will be made. But the program was not rock solid with Dino at the helm.
 
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I can personally speak to the fact (as can Cumberland, Doofus, and TITSWF) that Wake was involved with all these guys when Dino was coach. Wake had a very realistic shot at Quincy and I think common wisdom and hope was that we could/would get Bello and Miller as a tandem.
 
Top 100 players aren't "can't miss."
 
PhDeac said:
Top 100 players aren't "can't miss."
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I edited my post to reflect that. When I wrote "can't miss," I meant it more sarcastically than flatly. Out of those 15 players, 8 have either transferred or left the team (Marquis Rankin). Some could still be good at their next stop but certainly didn't tear it up at their initial school. It's just a mixed bag.
 
Right but as we've discussed a lot on here before, you're better off recruiting top 100 players than those outside the top 100. Showing that not all of them pan out isn't a reason to not tap into the areas where you have a better chance of hitting a good player.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Right but as we've discussed a lot on here before, you're better off recruiting top 100 players than those outside the top 100. Showing that not all of them pan out isn't a reason to not tap into the areas where you have a better chance of hitting a good player.
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Not blindly. I'd rather have someone good at talent evaluation who can find guys in the top 100 who will succeed but can also find guys outside of the top 100 who will perform well. It's not really worth getting all the facts out again but this past year's NBA draft had a ton of guys who weren't highly ranked in high school. Top 30 guys are more akin to blue chippers. Beyond that, you just hope the coach had the right eye.
 
MichDeac25 said:
Not blindly. I'd rather have someone good at talent evaluation who can find guys in the top 100 who will succeed but can also find guys outside of the top 100 who will perform well. It's not really worth getting all the facts out again but this past year's NBA draft had a ton of guys who weren't highly ranked in high school. Top 30 guys are more akin to blue chippers. Beyond that, you just hope the coach had the right eye.
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You realize though, that players get ranked in the top 100 because people whose job it is to evaluate talent watch them play basketball and place them there. Sure, there are bumps based on offers, etc, but it's not as if there is a treasure trove of undiscovered talent out there in the modern highschool/AAU basketball setup. Players that get ranked highly tend to be the best players.
 
I haven't seen your offer yet, crypt keeper. I'll try to find it.
 
RacerDeac said:
You realize though, that players get ranked in the top 100 because people whose job it is to evaluate talent watch them play basketball and place them there. Sure, there are bumps based on offers, etc, but it's not as if there is a treasure trove of undiscovered talent out there in the modern highschool/AAU basketball setup. Players that get ranked highly tend to be the best players.
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No way. Too many players across the country. Too many evaluators. AAU ball versus actual basketball on high school teams. It's not as clean as you think. Butler, back to back national title runs. Victor Oladipo - 3 stars. http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=3851344

Last year's UK team was loaded - lost to Robert Morris and Coron Williams in the NIT. Ty Walker. If all of these evaluators ranking players in the top 100 were so good, you wouldn't have as many busts in the top 100 as you do. I'm not saying to avoid going after the top talent. But just chasing recruiting rankings isn't the recipe for success.
 
bobknightfan said:
You should stick to soccer, DV7....a sport that you evidently know something about. You don't know shit about basketball.

By the way, are you taking me up on my offer, or were you just idly running your mouth about "standing firm on your 15-16 win projection"?
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I tend to go with the guy who is so rational in his thoughts about basketball that he would cheer for Bob Knight over his own son when two folks disagree on this board.
 
MichDeac25 said:
No way. Too many players across the country. Too many evaluators. AAU ball versus actual basketball on high school teams. It's not as clean as you think. Butler, back to back national title runs. Victor Oladipo - 3 stars. http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=3851344

Last year's UK team was loaded - lost to Robert Morris and Coron Williams in the NIT. Ty Walker. If all of these evaluators ranking players in the top 100 were so good, you wouldn't have as many busts in the top 100 as you do. I'm not saying to avoid going after the top talent. But just chasing recruiting rankings isn't the recipe for success.
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How clean do I think it is exactly? Again, you love to point out exceptions...even better that it's an exception not only in talent ranking, but also at Butler, a team with exceptional coaching talent as well.

Like you said, if it was easy, there would be less busts. So why do you think a single coach who is "good at talent evaluation" is going to somehow consistently do an even better job than the cumulative effort of multiple people from multiple sources all over the country who do it for a living? In the end, a coach who is good at evaluating talent is usually going to settle on the same players the professional talent evaluators have settled on as well.

Queue up your list of 2-3 exceptions...
 
Oh cool, so we're proving general rules using exceptions again? I love it when we do this!
 
bobknightfan said:
Well, you picked 11-12 wins, so we already know that you don't have a clue......but I'll make the same offer on 18 wins to you. If you thought we would win 11-12 games, how can you turn down an offer that we will win 18 or more?
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LOL. I did? You realize people do things out of sarcasm, right? And not everything is super serious? To be fair, I think my son (he's 5) could have coached this team to more than 11-12 wins...AND I would cheer for him.
 
bobknightfan said:
You realize, of course, what a damned sorry excuse that is? Hard for someone to ever be wrong if he is going to play the "I was only kidding card" every time he makes a stupid comment or prediction. And a lot of people on this board have that act down pat. LOL.
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Other people just delete their posts when they wake up the next morning and realize how stupid they sounded. I'm not going to name names or point fingers at the culprits that do such a silly thing.
 
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