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Wake - Virginia Tech Game Thread

IrishSlim said:
Umm. Got some bad news for you. He's playing in the Super Bowl in 10 days.
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And he's two-time 1st team All-Pro in his first three years. He's a pretty decent player.
 
MichDeac25 said:
And they're now playing with Enfield, Wright, and whoever coaches Providence. Guess what - still not much better. Are we just inventing statistics now? Wins/scholarship per class?
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It's called Win Shares. Basically approximates an individual's overall contribution to team success. Here's an explanation.

Comparing classes by scholarships used is an easy way to account for different sized classes and early defections.

I also don't think it's relevant to compare what those guys did at other schools with what the current sophomores have yet to do at this school. People underestimate the impact on an 18 year old of having a horrible first year (or in some cases two years) and then sitting out of games for a year. It's hard to look at their situations and say with any degree of certainty that they wouldn't have gotten any better.
 
deacvision7 said:
Sherman is an asshole when on the field. But he backs up his shit talking too.

I love the guy.
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I've never liked big trash talkers. And I think he really lost control at the end of that game and deserved the resulting negative attention. But off the field I have no problem with him and like him because he's entertaining and bright.
 
MichDeac25 said:
And they're now playing with Enfield, Wright, and whoever coaches Providence. Guess what - still not much better. Are we just inventing statistics now? Wins/scholarship per class?
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Also to further debunk the whole "[Redacted] inherited crap and just needed (needs) time to win with his players" BS:

Over the past 4 years Dino recruits have actually contributed more win shares despite taking up less roster space than [Redacted]'s players.

Dino's recruits: 21.3 win shares in 13.6 seasons.

Bz recruits: 16.1 win shares in 16.4 seasons.
 
RChildress107 said:
Also to further debunk the whole "[Redacted] inherited crap and just needed (needs) time to win with his players" BS:

Over the past 4 years Dino recruits have actually contributed more win shares despite taking up less roster space than [Redacted]'s players.

Dino's recruits: 21.3 win shares in 13.6 seasons.

Bz recruits: 16.1 win shares in 16.4 seasons.
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The class the Bzzzz inherited from Dino was pretty highly rated right?
 
RChildress107 said:
Also to further debunk the whole "[Redacted] inherited crap and just needed (needs) time to win with his players" BS:

Over the past 4 years Dino recruits have actually contributed more win shares despite taking up less roster space than [Redacted]'s players.

Dino's recruits: 21.3 win shares in 13.6 seasons.

Bz recruits: 16.1 win shares in 16.4 seasons.
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I truly have no idea how you are calculating these stats. But if this is the conclusion you are coming to, there's something wrong, just like the earlier "efficiency stat" that apparently says Chennault and Derosiers are better than Devin Thomas. The JT/Derosiers class was expected to be our backbone class for several years. And most of us, me included, were excited based on the recruiting rankings. It didn't pan out. You can try to pin that on Buzz but those players didn't pan out for Buzz and other good coaches haven't made them what they were hyped to be either. I thought JT had a lot of athletic potential. Derosiers had some ability but was really underdeveloped up top and played a bit soft. If those players had gone elsewhere and were completely lighting it up, you know that it would be viewed as an indictment of Buzz around here.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
The class the Bzzzz inherited from Dino was pretty highly rated right?
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top 20, top 10 by some services (i think). Obviously didn't turn out to be that great but it wasn't the complete train wreck buzz-apologists have made it out to be.

No excuse for that team to only win 8 games. With a coach at or above Dino's level that team wins more than 15 games 8 times out of 10.
 
MichDeac25 said:
You can try to pin that on Buzz but those players didn't pan out for Buzz and other good coaches haven't made them what they were hyped to be either.
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Not-Like-The-Others-Owls.jpg
 
RChildress107 said:
No excuse for that team to only win 8 games. With a coach at or above Dino's level that team wins more than 15 games 8 times out of 10.
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Exactly. Whether the talent panned out to be what we thought, we still lost to far less talented teams and have continued to do so under the reign of Buzz.
 
RacerDeac said:
Exactly. Whether the talent panned out to be what we thought, we still lost to far less talented teams and have continued to do so under the reign of Buzz.
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How in the heck could you expect Bzzz to beat the likes of Stetson, Wofford, UNC-W, and Presbyterian will a only a top 20, maybe top 10 inherited recruiting class.
 
RChildress107 said:
top 20, top 10 by some services (i think). Obviously didn't turn out to be that great but it wasn't the complete train wreck buzz-apologists have made it out to be.

No excuse for that team to only win 8 games. With a coach at or above Dino's level that team wins more than 15 games 8 times out of 10.
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How was it not a complete train wreck? JT Terrell is not a world beater on a bad USC team, playing for the supposed miracle worker, Andy Enfield. Chennault is a backup PG and barely contributes statwise on a good Villanova team. Derosiers is a sub and doesn't contribute a lot of stats on an okay Providence team. Melvin Tabb averages 3.5 ppg for Kent State. McKie has been good for Wake. These guys would have been Seniors at Wake this year. This is the 4-year team that was going to lead us to paradise?
 
MichDeac25 said:
I truly have no idea how you are calculating these stats. But if this is the conclusion you are coming to, there's something wrong, just like the earlier "efficiency stat" that apparently says Chennault and Derosiers are better than Devin Thomas. The JT/Derosiers class was expected to be our backbone class for several years. And most of us, me included, were excited based on the recruiting rankings. It didn't pan out. You can try to pin that on Buzz but those players didn't pan out for Buzz and other good coaches haven't made them what they were hyped to be either. I thought JT had a lot of athletic potential. Derosiers had some ability but was really underdeveloped up top and played a bit soft. If those players had gone elsewhere and were completely lighting it up, you know that it would be viewed as an indictment of Buzz around here.
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Desrosiers is playing pretty consistent basketball for Providence. Win shares is also a frequently used statistic as far as sabermetrics go.
 
MichDeac25 said:
I truly have no idea how you are calculating these stats. But if this is the conclusion you are coming to, there's something wrong, just like the earlier "efficiency stat" that apparently says Chennault and Derosiers are better than Devin Thomas. The JT/Derosiers class was expected to be our backbone class for several years. And most of us, me included, were excited based on the recruiting rankings. It didn't pan out. You can try to pin that on Buzz but those players didn't pan out for Buzz and other good coaches haven't made them what they were hyped to be either. I thought JT had a lot of athletic potential. Derosiers had some ability but was really underdeveloped up top and played a bit soft. If those players had gone elsewhere and were completely lighting it up, you know that it would be viewed as an indictment of Buzz around here.
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I provided a link earlier. All of these stats are from sports-reference.com. Here is the link explaining Win Shares again.

Unlike the efficiency stats provided earlier Win Shares are not adjusted on a per minute basis. It's a total, not an average per minute.

Like I said earlier we don't really know how those kids would have developed with a different coach. When you are 18 2-3 years of not playing under a solid coach can be detrimental to your development. Their performance under solid coaches now isn't necessarily a good indicator of what their overall performance would have been at Wake if they had a good coach to start out with.


That's a huge reason why I only looked at each class's first two seasons. The statistics (and the eye test really) indicate that the current sophomores are somewhere between Dino's last class actual performance and Ish's class actual performance.

[Redacted]'s first three classes have been unacceptable taken as a whole. His fourth and potentially fifth classes do not offer much hope for improvement. James, Jeff, and Aminu are not walking through that door.
 
MichDeac25 said:
How was it not a complete train wreck? JT Terrell is not a world beater on a bad USC team, playing for the supposed miracle worker, Andy Enfield. Chennault is a backup PG and barely contributes statwise on a good Villanova team. Derosiers is a sub and doesn't contribute a lot of stats on an okay Providence team. Melvin Tabb averages 3.5 ppg for Kent State. McKie has been good for Wake. These guys would have been Seniors at Wake this year. This is the 4-year team that was going to lead us to paradise?
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Nope, it was the 4 year team that would have led us about to where we are right now unless it was supplemented by more talent. Dino under Skip had a track record of supplementing foundational classes with elite talent.

[Redacted] destroyed whatever foundation (however weak you think it might have been) that class had and then failed to bring in elite talent. [Redacted]'s foundational class is not much stronger than Dino's last class and certainly far weaker than other foundational classes in recent Wake history. On top of that he has failed to surround that class with elite talent.
 
Mich needs to quit while he's behind (reminds me of Buzz).
 
RChildress107 said:
Also to further debunk the whole "[Redacted] inherited crap and just needed (needs) time to win with his players" BS:

Over the past 4 years Dino recruits have actually contributed more win shares despite taking up less roster space than [Redacted]'s players.

Dino's recruits: 21.3 win shares in 13.6 seasons.

Bz recruits: 16.1 win shares in 16.4 seasons.
Click to expand...

Is the guy who picks "win shares" the same person who formula says Tony C and Carson are having better offensive years than Devin?
 
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