• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Wellman tips his hand in Washington Post

Hondo said:
live -

Respectfully....



Not completely but we know - after the fact - what went on and that definately called for an overhaul.




So far so good....



Whoa....again, as we learned, twas alot more that needed fixing.




I can't tell you that cuz it would not be accurate.

At places like Ohio State, Kentucky, Florida State, Uconn, etcetera, the behavior, incidents/embarassing press and academic problems we've seen and read about over the last 20 months would be sluffed off as insignificant or SOP. Thankfully ( and painfully ), Wake isn't that kinda school and doesn't want those 'types' in our program ( see Indiana ).

Buzz may or may not be a long termer. Unfortunately for him, he's saddled with cleaning up the mess he inherited. One thing I'm certain of....his successor will inherit a much cleaner program than the one he did.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much dead on best I can tell. It was the lack of 'student' in student-athlete.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I think I have done a fairly okay job of channeling Wellman's thinking on this, and he is doing exactly what I expected.

Some of you lose credibility when you say there has been no improvement. I totall get loathing bzd. But simple math is this:

8 wins with 1 5star (Walker), 3 4star players (McKie, Ari, JTT) and a bunch of 3 stars
11+ wins with 1 5tar (Walker) 1 4star player (McKie) and a bunch of 3s

Next year we lose the 5star and add 3 4stars and several 3s, borderline 4s

The expectation will be bubble. I imagine Bzd will get a little wiggle room and it will be somewhat dependent on the Syracuse/Pitt addition date. If that expectation is not met, well ... you get your wish.

Wellman is going to let Bzd find his ceiling at Wake unless next year ends with fewer wins than losses. He'll fire Bzd as soon as he decides that Bzd's ceiling is under Sweet 16.

I agree with this approach for a number of reasons, but one being what Hondo lays out. The program will be way more desirable with the players we'll have with at least two years of eligibility remaining, the renewed strength of the ACC, and the trajectory of the program. Would not be surprised if it played out as a step-down, retirement type of deal
 
At least we have a coach who is young, enthusiastic, and appears patient, since it takes a while to build a program the right way.

Buzzin!
 
RacerDeac said:
The tear down, culture change, etc BS only came about when players started getting in trouble and we started losing games under Bzz's watch. It's all a made up crap sandwich that Bzzinners have chomped down on and raved about like a nice steak.
Click to expand...

Right no queue, Jaybone chimes in above... :thumbsup:
 
jaybone said:
He'll fire Bzd as soon as he decides that Bzd's ceiling is under Sweet 16.
Click to expand...

Untrue. Otherwise, he would have been fired just after the press conference announcing his hire.
 
May just be me but I read Wellman's quotes more towards referencing the league in general and the new coaches. Obviously, even this would indicate his views towards Bz somewhat too but I just do not read the article as a glowing recommendation for Bz.

Still, his rainbows and lollypops view of the ACC right now is funny. When you top team is having student attendance issues, everything is not all good. Hopefully the infusion of Syracuse and Pitt adds a couple of teams to rejuvenate the league.
 
i am good friends with an uncle of one of the players recruiting by dino, but played for buzz. His version of the Dino firing was:

RW told Dino - I want the program to go in a new direction. More like WF football / Duke and Butler bball and less like UNC fball / Memphis and Kentucky bball.

Dino told RW - (same thing Skip always said) In order for us to win in the ACC, we need the best players available (future NBA players, not kids with 5 star heart).

RW told Dino - we are going in the new direction, with or without you

Dino stood his ground and RW fired him.


IMO, the lack of post-season success was the excuse. RW's desire for a culture change was the reason Dino got fired.

As proud as I am of Grobe doing it the right way, RW had to understand that football and bball at Wake are completely different animals. Grobe took over a program in terrible shape, so people gave him time to build it up - first competitive, then playing for bowls, then the ACC champs. Bball was #1 in the country 15 months prior to Dino getting fired. No fanbase in the world would accept going from #1 to 1-15 in 2 years.



BTW - I am a buzzouter. Have been since early last year, when he started blaming everyone in sight (players, fans, press) and never took responsibility for anything other than a NIT season at CU.
 
Last edited:
Hondo said:
live -

Respectfully....



Not completely but we know - after the fact - what went on and that definately called for an overhaul.




So far so good....






Whoa....again, as we learned, twas alot more that needed fixing.





I can't tell you that cuz it would not be accurate.

At places like Ohio State, Kentucky, Florida State, Uconn, etcetera, the behavior, incidents/embarassing press and academic problems we've seen and read about over the last 20 months would be sluffed off as insignificant or SOP. Thankfully ( and painfully ), Wake isn't that kinda school and doesn't want those 'types' in our program ( see Indiana ).

Buzz may or may not be a long termer. Unfortunately for him, he's saddled with cleaning up the mess he inherited. One thing I'm certain of....his successor will inherit a much cleaner program than the one he did.
Click to expand...

Stellar post, Hondo!
 
91deac said:
As proud as I am of Grobe doing it the right way, RW had to understand that football and bball at Wake are completely different animals. Grobe took over a program in terrible shape, so people gave him time to build it up - first competitive, then playing for bowls, then the ACC champs. Bball was #1 in the country 15 months prior to Dino getting fired. No fanbase in the world would accept going from #1 to 1-15 in 2 years.
Click to expand...

Agreed, the other point is that you can't regularly get 5* players at wake for football. Never have and probably never will. We had plenty of them in basketball and RW decided we could do it differently.

Our ceiling in football is probably to remain about 60th out of 120 1A programs and have a special year every 3-5 years. We are not competing for national championships. It's a major improvement over the last 30 years before Grobe, but we will never be a national power.

Our goal in basketball should be national championships. We were a national power that found a way to disappoint in the post season with each of the last 3 coaches. From Rutland's knee to the nut punch to the first round picks half way out the door we always found a way to disappoint in March. Now we disappoint all season long.
 
91deac said:
i am good friends with an uncle of one of the players recruiting by dino, but played for buzz. His version of the Dino firing was:

RW told Dino - I want the program to go in a new direction. More like WF football / Duke and Butler bball and less like UNC fball / Memphis and Kentucky bball.

Dino told RW - (same thing Skip always said) In order for us to win in the ACC, we need the best players available (future NBA players, not kids with 5 star heart).

RW told Dino - we are going in the new direction, with or without you

Dino stood his ground and RW fired him.


IMO, the lack of post-season success was the excuse. RW's desire for a culture change was the reason Dino got fired.

As proud as I am of Grobe doing it the right way, RW had to understand that football and bball at Wake are completely different animals. Grobe took over a program in terrible shape, so people gave him time to build it up - first competitive, then playing for bowls, then the ACC champs. Bball was #1 in the country 15 months prior to Dino getting fired. No fanbase in the world would accept going from #1 to 1-15 in 2 years.



BTW - I am a buzzouter. Have been since early last year, when he started blaming everyone in sight (players, fans, press) and never took responsibility for anything other than a NIT season at CU.
Click to expand...

One of these is not like the other.
 
richis711 said:
At least we have a coach who is young, enthusiastic, and appears patient, since it takes a while to build a program the right way.

Buzzin!
Click to expand...

What way is that!? The man throws his team under the bus and NEVER takes any accountability to consistently embarrassing the Wake Forest name. HAVE you been to a game!? (this is not a stretch) It is like watching a middle school team. We have talented players but they have no clue what the coach wants them to do! 2 Years with the same parts and we are still producing the same stats. TERRIBLE! When we seem to be turning a stone we take 5 steps back, which is an obvious sign that the coach is not doing his job! Mix that in with the fact he can't even do a radio show and it is obvious that RW made a HUGE mistake with this hire and very well could be responsible for the demise of Deacon hoops!
 
richis711 said:
At least we have a coach who is young, enthusiastic, and appears patient, since it takes a while to build a program the right way.

Buzzin!
Click to expand...

THE DEUCE said:
What way is that!? The man throws his team under the bus and NEVER takes any accountability to consistently embarrassing the Wake Forest name. HAVE you been to a game!? (this is not a stretch) It is like watching a middle school team. We have talented players but they have no clue what the coach wants them to do! 2 Years with the same parts and we are still producing the same stats. TERRIBLE! When we seem to be turning a stone we take 5 steps back, which is an obvious sign that the coach is not doing his job! Mix that in with the fact he can't even do a radio show and it is obvious that RW made a HUGE mistake with this hire and very well could be responsible for the demise of Deacon hoops!
Click to expand...

Try reading that again... specifically the first two descriptors.
 
THE DEUCE said:
What way is that!? The man throws his team under the bus and NEVER takes any accountability to consistently embarrassing the Wake Forest name. HAVE you been to a game!? (this is not a stretch) It is like watching a middle school team. We have talented players but they have no clue what the coach wants them to do! 2 Years with the same parts and we are still producing the same stats. TERRIBLE! When we seem to be turning a stone we take 5 steps back, which is an obvious sign that the coach is not doing his job! Mix that in with the fact he can't even do a radio show and it is obvious that RW made a HUGE mistake with this hire and very well could be responsible for the demise of Deacon hoops!
Click to expand...

Sarcasm detector Fail.

Also, see my avatar and user title for a clue about how I really feel.
 
:wtftard::fuckyocouch:fuuuuFacepalm:mad::cliffs::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick::sick:

FUCK YOU BUZZ AND RON
 
Hondo said:
live -

Respectfully....



Not completely but we know - after the fact - what went on and that definately called for an overhaul.




So far so good....



Whoa....again, as we learned, twas alot more that needed fixing.




I can't tell you that cuz it would not be accurate.

At places like Ohio State, Kentucky, Florida State, Uconn, etcetera, the behavior, incidents/embarassing press and academic problems we've seen and read about over the last 20 months would be sluffed off as insignificant or SOP. Thankfully ( and painfully ), Wake isn't that kinda school and doesn't want those 'types' in our program ( see Indiana ).

Buzz may or may not be a long termer. Unfortunately for him, he's saddled with cleaning up the mess he inherited. One thing I'm certain of....his successor will inherit a much cleaner program than the one he did.
Click to expand...

And what exactly do we know about what happened? As far as anyone has officially said, the only incident that has come out since Dino was fired that happened on his watch was the Clark/Teague incident. Some people like to drop hints and act like they knew of Dino making deals with Satan and players snorting coke off of hookers paid for by boosters, but people with much better knowledge of the program (BabyDeac) say that there was nothing improper going on. Thanks for letting know that you hated Dino and/or are related to Wellman or [Redacted]. Just remember that all these problems came after Dino was fired... not before.
 
I agree that it's pretty clear that WF hoops and football are not analogous. While this team doesn't have incredible athletes and is not very deep, I'm still surprised that Bzz doesn't have them get after it harder on the defensive end.

Having watched the current VCU team a number of times, they are a bad offensive team, but are fairly successful (judged by wins and computer metrics) by being relentless on defense. This isn't a recipe for getting to the final four, but at least would have Wake a lot more competitive in games. There's a difference between hanging tough and losing or winning and getting blown out of the water once shots stop falling. That lack of defensive effort, to me, is on the coaches and is unacceptable.

Just begs credulity that this Wake team can't be better defensively with two legit shot blockers. Again, bad defensive rotations, etc. points to coaching. I have very little doubt that Izzo, Knight, K, Anthony Grant, Shaka Smart, Dave Odom or any other good coach would have this same group playing much better defense.
 
Bras_is_Old said:
I agree that it's pretty clear that WF hoops and football are not analogous. While this team doesn't have incredible athletes and is not very deep, I'm still surprised that Bzz doesn't have them get after it harder on the defensive end.

Having watched the current VCU team a number of times, they are a bad offensive team, but are fairly successful (judged by wins and computer metrics) by being relentless on defense. This isn't a recipe for getting to the final four, but at least would have Wake a lot more competitive in games. There's a difference between hanging tough and losing or winning and getting blown out of the water once shots stop falling. That lack of defensive effort, to me, is on the coaches and is unacceptable.

Just begs credulity that this Wake team can't be better defensively with two legit shot blockers. Again, bad defensive rotations, etc. points to coaching. I have very little doubt that Izzo, Knight, K, Anthony Grant, Shaka Smart, Dave Odom or any other good coach would have this same group playing much better defense.
Click to expand...

You're going to have rosters that lack great shooters at times, but if you can consistently recruit good athletes, you ought to be able to field a good defensive team practically every year. I'd love to get a coach that would be able to get our team to play really hard, aggressive defense. Odom's teams were usually good defensively, but it was good half-court defense. Skip just wasn't a defense guy. I would love to have a coach come in here, get the right guys in place and get after teams full-court.
 
Hondo said:
live -

Respectfully....



Not completely but we know - after the fact - what went on and that definately called for an overhaul.




So far so good....



Whoa....again, as we learned, twas alot more that needed fixing.




I can't tell you that cuz it would not be accurate.

At places like Ohio State, Kentucky, Florida State, Uconn, etcetera, the behavior, incidents/embarassing press and academic problems we've seen and read about over the last 20 months would be sluffed off as insignificant or SOP. Thankfully ( and painfully ), Wake isn't that kinda school and doesn't want those 'types' in our program ( see Indiana ).

Buzz may or may not be a long termer. Unfortunately for him, he's saddled with cleaning up the mess he inherited. One thing I'm certain of....his successor will inherit a much cleaner program than the one he did.
Click to expand...

Very well said. One faces the choice of accepting that professionals (Ron and Jeff) acting in the best interests of the institution (and therefore in their own best interests) or assuming that they are on an illogical mission to destroy the basketball program along with their own careers and legacies. There seems to be overwhelming support for the second premise based on individual feelings and opinions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top