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Wellman tips his hand in Washington Post

KVegasDeac said:
No one wants to believe it, but I will say it anyway...There were most definitely behind the scenes issues within the basketball team that needed to be addressed, and Dino was not addressing them. I don't know if the program needed "culture change" per se, but there were problems.
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Yet no one wants to talk about these problems specifically. That's from Ron on down to a board where we allegedly "discuss wake Forest sports... freely." Passing allusions to problems with no hard information leads one to question the extent to which the issues existed.
 
The times I have gotten specific examples from the cryptic comments, by response has always been "that's it?". Stuff so minor I can't even remember it.
 
91's take on the situation is more accurate than Hondo's.
 
VaDeac said:
Yet no one wants to talk about these problems specifically. That's from Ron on down to a board where we allegedly "discuss wake Forest sports... freely." Passing allusions to problems with no hard information leads one to question the extent to which the issues existed.
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All I can say is that there were huge issues with discipline...the players ruled the team and walked all over Dino. There were many disagreements between the coaches on how to discipline players but ultimately, it was Dino's call.

He started a kid against KY in the NCAA tourney that blatantly disrespected an opposing player in pregame introductions on national TV (this, IMO, is the straw that broke Wellman's back).

The players liked Dino, but they did not respect him.
 
91deac said:
i am good friends with an uncle of one of the players recruiting by dino, but played for buzz. His version of the Dino firing was:

RW told Dino - I want the program to go in a new direction. More like WF football / Duke and Butler bball and less like UNC fball / Memphis and Kentucky bball.

Dino told RW - (same thing Skip always said) In order for us to win in the ACC, we need the best players available (future NBA players, not kids with 5 star heart).

RW told Dino - we are going in the new direction, with or without you

Dino stood his ground and RW fired him.


IMO, the lack of post-season success was the excuse. RW's desire for a culture change was the reason Dino got fired.

As proud as I am of Grobe doing it the right way, RW had to understand that football and bball at Wake are completely different animals. Grobe took over a program in terrible shape, so people gave him time to build it up - first competitive, then playing for bowls, then the ACC champs. Bball was #1 in the country 15 months prior to Dino getting fired. No fanbase in the world would accept going from #1 to 1-15 in 2 years.



BTW - I am a buzzouter. Have been since early last year, when he started blaming everyone in sight (players, fans, press) and never took responsibility for anything other than a NIT season at CU.
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Appreciate that account of the Dino firing. If it's true, I would say I am not as big a supporter of Dino as I once was. If true, that's Dino playing the "talent" card....a real copout for a coach imo. While I can embrace Dino standing on his convictions, I don't agree with him, if those were his convictions. My bigger concern though was the obviously huge lack of insight by Wellman as to whether Bz was the right man for the "overhaul". That is clearly a misjudgement. This is not prep-school, where learning to follow the rules and honor code are major components of why a kid is there. Bz has a coaching job to do, and by my observation, he's not cuttin' it.
 
We all know about McFarland's antics. Dino did sit him at the start of the Cleveland State game which caused alot of the fanbase to freak out.
 
Basketball coaches get fired. It's the nature of the beast and comes with the territory.

It's the hire after the fire that makes all the difference.
 
ChrisL68 said:
We all know about McFarland's antics. Dino did sit him at the start of the Cleveland State game which caused alot of the fanbase to freak out.
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Exactly.

So Dino started him vs. KY to avoid the same backlash. BIG HUGE mistake since Dino was told by RW to "clean up" the team in the off season.

BTW, Chas was playing like shit in the games leading up to Cleveland State which is why he was yanked from the line-up. It had nothing to do with behavior.
 
KVegasDeac said:
All I can say is that there were huge issues with discipline...the players ruled the team and walked all over Dino. There were many disagreements between the coaches on how to discipline players but ultimately, it was Dino's call.

He started a kid against KY in the NCAA tourney that blatantly disrespected an opposing player in pregame introductions on national TV (this, IMO, is the straw that broke Wellman's back).

The players liked Dino, but they did not respect him.
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don't remember this...elaborate please.
 
It was the last game he was ever going to play at Wake. Kinda late for him to learn his lesson.

Also, it was during introductions. Dino had to make a split second decision to bench him right as the game started after he had been introduced.

Didn't Chas have some antics in the ACCT game against Maryland? I figured that was part of the reason he sat against Cleveland State.

That kind of stuff seemed mostly centered on him. He was a punk no doubt and I am glad he doesn't play for us anymore.
 
ChrisL68 said:
It was the last game he was ever going to play at Wake. Kinda late for him to learn his lesson.

Didn't Chas have some antics in the ACCT game against Maryland? I figured that was part of the reason he sat against Cleveland State.

That kind of stuff seemed mostly centered on him.
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So what if it's his last game at Wake? You still bench his ass to prove a point to the jr's, soph's, freshmen and recruits that that kind of crap does not fly at WFU.

Dino and Chas were both boo'ed by Wake fans at that game...and Ky's cheering section got a lot larger after the diss seen round the world.

Chas was the most obvious offender, but Dino had no control of the team. Ish was the head coach.
 
Does anybody know, and can anybody report accurately, why Dino was fired. All these discussions about Jeff begin with Dino's dimissal. I am reminded of those who say that World War I was started by the Archduke being assassinated. There was a lot more to it.

Specifically, was Dino fired for a specific reason or the sum of reasons that he was told to address and didn't? Was there a breach in his personal conduct or was it limited to his professional conduct? To what degree was/is Wellman required to couch his comments due to confidentially requirements.

We, as a fanbase, would be far better off if there was a complete, but succinct, chronological description of the events that led up to where we are today. Clearing the air seems to be a requirement toward healing this program, including the terms of expectations associated with Jeff's hiring and his continuing role with the program.
 
KVegasDeac said:
All I can say is that there were huge issues with discipline...the players ruled the team and walked all over Dino. There were many disagreements between the coaches on how to discipline players but ultimately, it was Dino's call.

He started a kid against KY in the NCAA tourney that blatantly disrespected an opposing player in pregame introductions on national TV (this, IMO, is the straw that broke Wellman's back).

The players liked Dino, but they did not respect him.
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That's on Wellman. He's the one who promoted Dino. He should accept the risks of blindly making the assistant into the head guy. There's nothing that says players have to respect an assistant as the head coach, especially in a situation like that.

Everything that comes out about Dino/Bz, even info that seems to be in Wellman's defense, makes it seem like the man has terrible foresight.
 
Winkathomelygirl said:
Does anybody know, and can anybody report accurately, why Dino was fired. All these discussions about Jeff begin with Dino's dimissal. I am reminded of those who say that World War I was started by the Archduke being assassinated. There was a lot more to it.

Specifically, was Dino fired for a specific reason or the sum of reasons that he was told to address and didn't? Was there a breach in his personal conduct or was it limited to his professional conduct? To what degree was/is Wellman required to couch his comments due to confidentially requirements.

We, as a fanbase, would be far better off if there was a complete, but succinct, chronological description of the events that led up to where we are today. Clearing the air seems to be a requirement toward healing this program, including the terms of expectations associated with Jeff's hiring and his continuing role with the program.
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You would think. But that will never happen now. Wellman will never come clean with all the lies he's told in the last two years. That's what makes the whole "culture" arguement such a joke. I have not heard of anything that Dino supposedly did that compares to the complete lack of ethics displayed by the AD's office throughout this charade. Which is worse, a player not shaking someone's hand or the spokesman for Wake Athletics spouting bald faced lies on TV?

To what standards does Wake hold it's administrators? It's apparent that President Hatch and the trustees are willing to overlook Wellman's unethical behavior. If that's Wake's culture, it's certainly nothing to be proud of...
 
KVegasDeac said:
All I can say is that there were huge issues with discipline...the players ruled the team and walked all over Dino. There were many disagreements between the coaches on how to discipline players but ultimately, it was Dino's call.

He started a kid against KY in the NCAA tourney that blatantly disrespected an opposing player in pregame introductions on national TV (this, IMO, is the straw that broke Wellman's back).

The players liked Dino, but they did not respect him.
Click to expand...

If there was an issue during pregame introductions that means the player was already in the scorebook as a starter. He had to start then or the team would receive a technical foul.
 
KVegasDeac said:
So what if it's his last game at Wake? You still bench his ass to prove a point to the jr's, soph's, freshmen and recruits that that kind of crap does not fly at WFU.

Dino and Chas were both boo'ed by Wake fans at that game...and Ky's cheering section got a lot larger after the diss seen round the world.

Chas was the most obvious offender, but Dino had no control of the team. Ish was the head coach.
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So what was Ish's record that year? Did he coach every game?
 
keeper said:
If there was an issue during pregame introductions that means the player was already in the scorebook as a starter. He had to start then or the team would receive a technical foul.
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1 out of 1016 isn't bad.
 
bcobbdeacs said:
That last Wellman quote sounds like what they always said about Les Robinson when he was getting State cleaned up. I fear this experiment will lead to 20 lost years in Wake Hoops like State seems to finally be coming out of.
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That's a quote about Gaudio.
 
Fusiondad10 said:
Appreciate that account of the Dino firing. If it's true, I would say I am not as big a supporter of Dino as I once was. If true, that's Dino playing the "talent" card....a real copout for a coach imo. While I can embrace Dino standing on his convictions, I don't agree with him, if those were his convictions. My bigger concern though was the obviously huge lack of insight by Wellman as to whether Bz was the right man for the "overhaul". That is clearly a misjudgement. This is not prep-school, where learning to follow the rules and honor code are major components of why a kid is there. Bz has a coaching job to do, and by my observation, he's not cuttin' it.
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I respect Dino a lot more if that is true. If it is then...He understood firstly that there's a lot of room between UNC football and Butler basketball. Secondly, he understood that success in the Butler mold is very difficult to attain. Thirdly, he understood his own limitations. Fourth, and finally, he wanted to do things Skip's way.
 
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