I’m already getting a little sick of people saying we would have been a bubble team last year with Forbes coaching. It’s just not true.
WF Basketball Transfers (In & Out): Jalen Johnson (UT) IN !!!!!!!!!
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deaconson
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I just think manning is actually that terrible. If you don't that's ok.
Torry Johnson would have played significant minutes regardless of who was the head coach. That is not going to be a good team. If some coach were able to squeeze six more wins out of that group they would need to rename the Basketball Hall of Fame after him.
I’m willing to admit that having Chaundee out for several games really hurt the tram and, gasp, Manning.
I’m willing to admit that having Chaundee out for several games really hurt the tram and, gasp, Manning.
DeacsATS
Sam "Ace" Rothstein
Wonder if we’ll be in the mix for Romello White from Arizona State... He just entered the portal.
We could use a grad transfer big (as could 90% of other D1 programs). I think he’s from Atlanta, so not a huge stretch that he might want to come back to the east coast.
We could use a grad transfer big (as could 90% of other D1 programs). I think he’s from Atlanta, so not a huge stretch that he might want to come back to the east coast.
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Sam "Ace" Rothstein
Oh, and I loved Arians... I don’t think he’s the guy I’d compare Massoud to, though.
Massoud likely never as efficient on offense as Arians, but definitely has more all-around potential (and hopefully a broader offensive skill set).
Massoud likely never as efficient on offense as Arians, but definitely has more all-around potential (and hopefully a broader offensive skill set).
We would have had to do substantially better in conference to be a bubble team. Our OOC schedule was weak and the conference as a whole was down. I agree that Forbes, or most other coaches, likely would not have been able to get us over those hurdles.
deaconson
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The schedule was set up to make manning look good. He still failed. That team should not have lost out of conference that year with a good coach. Beat a couple good acc teams and you have a shot. I read somewhere Forbes has had some decent success in tourneys.
As a rookie who routinely got yanked. Massoud still shot 39.8% versus 42.7% on threes. That's one make every 35 attempts.
Can you show your work please?
PhDeac
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39.8 vs. 42.7 is a difference of 2.9% - 1/35 = 2.85%
It’s still true. If Massoud was better than Hoard and Chaundee hadn’t missed several games, we might have been a bubble team. Of course neither I, nor anyone else thought Massous would be better than Hoard, so you might take that comment with a grain of salt.
deaconson
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I'm confused.
DeacsATS
Sam "Ace" Rothstein
This wasn't the argument I was making, but I'll bite.
33/83 = 39.8%
If he had made two more (35/83), that's 42.2%
If he had made two less (31/83), that's 37.3%
So it works both ways.
His year at Wake, Arians was 61/143 (42.7%)... That is a higher % on a lot higher volume.
My point, however, was that Massoud can do a lot more things on offense than just shoot the 3... But yeah, at his height, if he can shoot 40% from beyond the arc it is a legit weapon.
He can also (probably) play (much) better defense than Arians could.
Go ahead and find a toilet. I will say it a again.
A bubble team from the ACC is just a mediocre semi-competitive team with a lot of flaws. Sarr was playing like a legit all conference player the last half of the season. Brown was very solid and could help any team. Throw in a real defense and a smart game plan and actual productive practices and a winner's mindset.
If Forbes cannot make that kind of difference, then Wake fans will be disappointed. I don't think they will be.
DeacsATS
Sam "Ace" Rothstein
I understand why people want to look at last year's roster and debate what Forbes could have done... But it's pointless. Of course, so is everything around here... It is a message board.
Having said that, I'm more interested in what he can do w/ the 2020-21 roster... Hoping he brings back as much of the existing roster as is possible. Will still leave him plenty of slots to bring in others. I'm not expecting him to pull some magic in bringing in new players for 2020... The class is largely spoken for at this point, and convincing players to come to Wake will be difficult right now (no visits and we're late in the game).
If we can bring back most of the roster and fill it out w/ another grad transfer (or two), I'm hoping Forbes can somehow put together a decent season... Not expecting postseason play, but a 2-18 type year in the ACC would do nothing to give the program momentum heading into 2021. Media preseason expectations will be for Wake to finish dead last... So getting above that would be good. Even something like 7-13 in the ACC would be "taking a step."
Recruiting for 2021 is HUGELY important, I think. Need to take advantage of any kind of honeymoon period AND need to upgrade the talent level on the roster, top to bottom. Forbes will have a ton of slots to fill via HS recruiting and transfers... That's what I'm keeping an eye on. Manning had no issues w/ machine gun offers... So just hearing that Forbes is making a lot of offers doesn't really do much for me. Of course he is. Need to land a few.
And in terms of Brown/Sarr coming back... As others have said, Brown has to be assumed gone at this point, though I don't understand his logic. I've seen people say Sarr is 50/50... I feel like he's 90% gone, but that's just based on the ESPN article on his entering the transfer portal and because I can understand his logic for leaving. Easy for him to try to get a waiver... He's clearly already pleading his case. If it doesn't work out, just go play in Europe and hope to get to the NBA that way. I've heard the criticism that he won't get drafted coming from Europe, but he wouldn't have been drafted this year, either. I like Sarr... But do we really think he is an NBA player?
Having said that, I'm more interested in what he can do w/ the 2020-21 roster... Hoping he brings back as much of the existing roster as is possible. Will still leave him plenty of slots to bring in others. I'm not expecting him to pull some magic in bringing in new players for 2020... The class is largely spoken for at this point, and convincing players to come to Wake will be difficult right now (no visits and we're late in the game).
If we can bring back most of the roster and fill it out w/ another grad transfer (or two), I'm hoping Forbes can somehow put together a decent season... Not expecting postseason play, but a 2-18 type year in the ACC would do nothing to give the program momentum heading into 2021. Media preseason expectations will be for Wake to finish dead last... So getting above that would be good. Even something like 7-13 in the ACC would be "taking a step."
Recruiting for 2021 is HUGELY important, I think. Need to take advantage of any kind of honeymoon period AND need to upgrade the talent level on the roster, top to bottom. Forbes will have a ton of slots to fill via HS recruiting and transfers... That's what I'm keeping an eye on. Manning had no issues w/ machine gun offers... So just hearing that Forbes is making a lot of offers doesn't really do much for me. Of course he is. Need to land a few.
And in terms of Brown/Sarr coming back... As others have said, Brown has to be assumed gone at this point, though I don't understand his logic. I've seen people say Sarr is 50/50... I feel like he's 90% gone, but that's just based on the ESPN article on his entering the transfer portal and because I can understand his logic for leaving. Easy for him to try to get a waiver... He's clearly already pleading his case. If it doesn't work out, just go play in Europe and hope to get to the NBA that way. I've heard the criticism that he won't get drafted coming from Europe, but he wouldn't have been drafted this year, either. I like Sarr... But do we really think he is an NBA player?
Deaconblue
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The Olivier Sarr we saw play the last half of the season is an NBA player.
This is something else. Arians was not a plus man defender, but he was good at help defending. He also got his hands on a lot of rebounds to keep them alive for teammates to get. I think Arians was underrated on both of those aspects of the game.
Massoud is underrated on his vision and ball skills. He was terribly utilized by Danny.
Strickland33
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Between RJ’s 1/35 (lol) and Biff getting OGB’d for saying this last year’s team was a bubble team (lol) this thread has delivered.
The post above mine was Jaybone saying that Massoud might be the best player on the team next year (2019-20). That would mean he was as good as Hoard, if not better. I had contended that the previous year's team (2018-19) was a bubble team potentially. While I was joking when I said it, it became even more obvious that Manning wasn't getting the most out of his players. Ultimately he had a one-and-done on that team, and two borderline NBA playeres in Sarr and Brown. That should be enough to bet you to the bubble.
Now, think if Massoud was actually better than Hoard, and Sarr and Brown were a year older, and Childress showed marginal improvement from his junior to senior year. Under the context that I just described, wouldn't last year's team, been just as good or better than the bubble team I had jokingly described before the 2018-19 season ?
I really considered not sending this reply because I doubt anyone remembers context and water under the bridge from one and two years ago, but the gotcha is always good.