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White fragility in the workplace

If Trump wins the election, you could study this thread for all the reasons why.

Never seen more self loathing from liberal white guys.

People have different experiences. Everyone has their own cross to bear. GTF over it.
 
TownieDeac said:
I remember balking or at least being confused when my wife brought home a bag that said "Stop telling women to smile" on it. First, I hadn't considered that she would be told that when she was walking down the street, which she assured me she had, and I didn't really think it was a thing. Then I experienced it happen, which was annoying, but I kinda laughed it off and kept going. Then it literally came up in a performance review. She got nothing but excellent ratings in every category, but her boss said the one thing she needed to work on was smiling more. I can't imagine in a thousand years my boss telling me I needed to smile more.
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I'm a white male, and I've had a boss that told me to smile more in a performance review as well.
 
jhmd2000 said:
*sigh*

We agree that people have difference experiences, we disagree what to do about it.

Since we're diagnosing each other's shortcomings on this issue, the OGB is lousy with guilt-riddled (probably with considerable cause) lefties whose angst has mutated from fairly "considering someone's identities and experiences" into a full-blown fetish, who are very much inclined to be fearful of disagreeing with people who don't look like them. Palpable cowardice is abundant. You left out "You should not refuse to disagree with someone just because of their race or identity." I mean, do you seriously doubt people on the left are there, or have you all just magically struck the perfect balance?
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To return to this mess of a post, I don't think most humans are capable of striking perfect balances, much less liberals.

I am not even fully sure of the perfect balance you speak of, because it seems like a false dichotomy to say "on the one hand there's acknowledging identity and experience and on the other hand fetishizing it." I think you just...don't fetishize things in general and try to always consider alternative opinions. It's less about balancing the two and more about focusing on the former.

In light of my earlier post about epistemic privilege, I'll also add to the comments about vocabulary problems. I think liberals have gone too far with policing language and political correctness, and I've acknowledged it several times on here. I also think it's questionable campaign strategy for Hillary to talk about white privilege, even if I think it's an important topic for national discourse. That is not a line that is easy for even the most gifted speakers to walk. But it's funny to see conservatives participate in policing language when it's discussions they don't want to have.
 
knowell said:
If Trump wins the election, you could study this thread for all the reasons why.

Never seen more self loathing from liberal white guys.

People have different experiences. Everyone has their own cross to bear. GTF over it.
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Yeah I've acknowledged that in my previous post. It has nothing to do with self-loathing or white guilt.

People do have different experiences, and I think it's important to think of all of them when we talk to one another or craft policy for one another. Getting the fuck over it is tougher for some than others. You know, The Princess and the Pea.
 
And yet, you have acknowledged racial inequality and that white people have a part to play in fixing it, but cry "white guilt!" when the discussion is that white people simply need to listen with empathy.

I am curious why that is a bad starting point.
 
TownieDeac said:
To return to this mess of a post, I don't think most humans are capable of striking perfect balances, much less liberals.

I am not even fully sure of the perfect balance you speak of, because it seems like a false dichotomy to say "on the one hand there's acknowledging identity and experience and on the other hand fetishizing it." I think you just...don't fetishize things in general and try to always consider alternative opinions. It's less about balancing the two and more about focusing on the former.

In light of my earlier post about epistemic privilege, I'll also add to the comments about vocabulary problems. I think liberals have gone too far with policing language and political correctness, and I've acknowledged it several times on here. I also think it's questionable campaign strategy for Hillary to talk about white privilege, even if I think it's an important topic for national discourse. That is not a line that is easy for even the most gifted speakers to walk. But it's funny to see conservatives participate in policing language when it's discussions they don't want to have.
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Yikes @ the Irony.
 
Anybody who is "raceblind" about who they listen to and end up ignoring 99% of people from one race isn't really raceblind.

I don't it's too much to ask people to listen to others who aren't like themselves. If you can do something to help someone pick up their cross, you should.
 
What's up with certain posters attributing others' positions to their feelings? Why does an opinion always have to be based on fear or anger or guilt?
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Yes, 2 bonus points
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If you combine those bonus points with my disbelief that white fragility is really a problem that should give me about -19,945 race points. I think racism is the problem here. I think White Fragility is silly. People aren't fragile because its racism, they are fragile because no one likes being told they are flawed. So it really doesn't matter if it is racism, greed, laziness, etc.... And it certainly doesn't matter what color your skin is. Its simply human nature to react poorly when someone calls you out. PH still hasn't responded as to what about this is unique to white people. We need to address the racism that starts the conversation, not the defense mechanisms that are created when flawed humans get prideful. White fragility seems like a simple power play (and I do realize that by stating that I am categorizing myself as a fragile white guy to the people who promote that concept).

It sounds like a Trump move. Label something, repeat the label, and eventually that is how people will think of that person(s). It won't matter how accurate the portrayal is if you can repeat the label.
 
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jhmd2000 said:
Yikes @ the Irony.
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What discussions do we not want to have with black individuals?

Let me guess: you think we are scared to say:

"you are not trying hard enough to succeed financially, and as a group you tend to have a lot of kids out of wedlock."

Do you think that I am scared to walk up to an impoverished black person and say that?
 
Wrangor said:
If you combine those bonus points with my disbelief that white fragility is really a problem that should give me about -19,945 race points. I think racism is the problem here. I think White Fragility is silly. People aren't fragile because its racism, they are fragile because no one likes being told they are flawed. So it really doesn't matter if it is racism, greed, laziness, etc.... And it certainly doesn't matter what color your skin is. Its simply human nature to react poorly when someone calls you out. PH still hasn't responded as to what about this is unique to white people. We need to address the racism that starts the conversation, not the defense mechanisms that are created when flawed humans get prideful. White fragility seems like a simple power play (and I do realize that by stating that I am categorizing myself as a fragile white guy to the people who promote that concept).

It sounds like a Trump move. Label something, repeat the label, and eventually that is how people will think of that person(s). It won't matter how accurate the portrayal is if you can repeat the label.
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sure, there are lots of different reactions to being called out for lots of different things, but this movie and discussion was about white people getting all butthurt and angry when they fuck up and say some insensitive shit to/about black people. The movie was funny (kudos to you for having a sense of humor about it) and provocative.
 
WakeandBake said:
sure, there are lots of different reactions to being called out for lots of different things, but this movie and discussion was about white people getting all butthurt and angry when they fuck up and say some insensitive shit to/about black people. The movie was funny (kudos to you for having a sense of humor about it) and provocative.
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It was funny, but it kind of just played up liberal stereotypes of obliviously racist white people. It was funny to me because it was so over the top. Not because it was a rational starting point for discussion. I really didn't realize people were so enamored with this idea until this thread.
 
PhDeac said:
Anybody who is "raceblind" about who they listen to and end up ignoring 99% of people from one race isn't really raceblind.

I don't it's too much to ask people to listen to others who aren't like themselves. If you can do something to help someone pick up their cross, you should.
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How about we celebrate diversity of experience without having to break it down into oppressed and oppressors.

There are both advantages and disadvantages about being in the majority or the minority.

We should treat people respectfully as individuals without assuming we know something about them because we see the color of their skin.

As Cam says "1/8' deep".
 
knowell said:
If Trump wins the election, you could study this thread for all the reasons why.

Never seen more self loathing from liberal white guys.

People have different experiences. Everyone has their own cross to bear. GTF over it.
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Can you further explain exactly why you think we are "self loathing"? I don't loathe myself. Based on conversations I've had with other proud white conservative nationalists, there seems to be some white American identity or pride that I'm not expressing loudly enough.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Can you further explain exactly why you think we are "self loathing"? I don't loathe myself. Based on conversations I've had with other proud white conservative nationalists, there seems to be some white American identity or pride that I'm not expressing loudly enough.
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You don't have to be proud of the color of your skin. Be proud to be part of the human race.
 
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