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Petition to get Doral Moore Playing Time

ChrisL68 said:
Moore has clearly improved. Last night he was the most dominating player on the court during his minutes. But it is been clear for a couple of months now that he gives us a certain dimension that no other player can. Coupled with the fact that he always contributed even during his few minutes on the court and it really is inexcusable that his role hasn't been expanded during the course of the season more so than it actually has.
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Good news- DM can work with the bigs as we had hoped/expected. :thumbsup:

Bad news- DM's stubbornness to limit the frosh Big Diesel's minutes. :tard:
 
Collins and Moore have developed nicely over the season. I see Plumlee is still only able to dunk as a senior in K's program. Fuck you, Giles.
 
Doral Moore, who was the most dominating player on the court in our last game, is 11th on this team in minutes played, behind Rondale Watson, Greg McClinton and walk-on Trent Van Horn. That is just unbelievable because he looks to me to have a good deal of NBA potential. He leads the team in both points and rebounds per minute.

Collins is at 7th which is crazy too, but not as crazy as Moore.

Danny, play your potential NBA players more than your walk-ons!!!!
 
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Can't wait to see Moore up against Auguste. BC was just abysmal, but there are no excuses if Doral holds his own against Notre Dame.
 
It's nice to have something to watch for. Let's go Big Diesel!
 
DCDeac said:
Can't wait to see Moore up against Auguste. BC was just abysmal, but there are no excuses if Doral holds his own against Notre Dame.
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There are no excuses period. I don't care if he gets dominated, there is zero reason not to be playing your big upside freshman 7 footer big minutes.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Doral Moore, who was the most dominating player on the court in our last game, is 11th on this team in minutes played, behind Rondale Watson, Greg McClinton and walk-on Trent Van Horn. That is just unbelievable because he looks to me to have a good deal of NBA potential. He leads the team in both points and rebounds per minute.

Collins is at 7th which is crazy too, but not as crazy as Moore.

Danny, play your potential NBA players more than your walk-ons!!!!
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But the walk-ons give more effort in practice than our scholarship players which is what Danny likes.
 
Just about every time Moore has been in the game this year, he has been effective. He is averaging like .7 points/minute and .4 rebounds/minute, and then throw in some blocks/shot changes. I just don't see why he wasn't playing more to see if he could do for 5 mpg what he did for 2mpg, and then for 10mpg for what he did for 5mpg. Every time he comes in, he does some very positive things, and the low post defense and rebounding have been a HUGE problem for us in the ACC. Meanwhile, Dinos has been playing with no D, sometimes 0 rebounds, and a lot of 1-6 type shooting lines.... Maybe DM was afraid the Sixers, Lakers and Nets would all want him if he got the chance to play all year.... That is tongue in cheek, but still it beats any explanation I have for his lack of PT. Every time he has been in, at least that I have seen, he has looked very good.
 
88Deac said:
Just about every time Moore has been in the game this year, he has been effective. He is averaging like .7 points/minute and .4 rebounds/minute, and then throw in some blocks/shot changes. I just don't see why he wasn't playing more to see if he could do for 5 mpg what he did for 2mpg, and then for 10mpg for what he did for 5mpg. Every time he comes in, he does some very positive things, and the low post defense and rebounding have been a HUGE problem for us in the ACC. Meanwhile, Dinos has been playing with no D, sometimes 0 rebounds, and a lot of 1-6 type shooting lines.... Maybe DM was afraid the Sixers, Lakers and Nets would all want him if he got the chance to play all year.... That is tongue in cheek, but still it beats any explanation I have for his lack of PT. Every time he has been in, at least that I have seen, he has looked very good.
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If you watched the end of his longer playing stints against BC you would see a guy who is gassed. For instance, early in his stints, his FT stroke looks good and he hits. When he is gassed, it looks as bad as I've seen in a kids rec league game. It looked like the 20 min he played against BC is about as much as he can play effectively. I'm all for maximizing his time, but in a way that makes it effective time. Four minute stint, then rest, and come back and do four more minutes.
 
I don't think Moore has gotten enough minutes this year, but also don't see it as deserving of all the outrage. Devin is putting up great numbers and his college career has been 4 years of letdowns. He deserves every minute of playing time he's gotten at center and if Wake can get him drafted it's good for the program. No idea why people keep referencing walk-ons who had to fill in for our disastrous guard play this year when talking about Moore's minutes. You have to steal from Dinos (2nd best 3 point shooter), Devin (senior posting record numbers), or Collins (universally considered more ready to play than Moore) - and it's pretty reasonable behind that crowd to focus on practice, development, and easing him into game situations. I disagree with it, but it's at least somewhat reasonable.

Anyone that watched Moore in high school and in his first few games at Wake know he wasn't ready to play legit minutes to start. At some point it looks like he became ready (although the reactions so far seem to put a LOT of stock into a Boston College win) - probably much sooner than Manning anticipated - and pretty much everyone would have preferred he played more. But nobody would be clamoring for him if he wasn't playing well, which means he was either very well recruited or he's been developed well. Either way Manning deserves some credit for it, and even if you bash the minutes he's given him what exactly do people think it cost us? 2 wins? Maybe even 3? Then again in our NC State win Devin/Collins/Dinos combined for 40 of our 77 points. Maybe we lose if we limit them and Moore hadn't played that well. And it's not like we were a dumpster fire heading into conference play - that came later.

He's still played more minutes than Chase Jeter at Duke.
 
I remember DCDeac freaking out because Dino didn't get Ty Walker enough minutes in pre-ACC games when he was like our 3rd string center.
 
Not sure why the opponent matters so much when we are talking about Moore and Collins vs Dinos for PT. Dinos had 3 and 5 against that same opponent.
 
DCDeac said:
I don't think Moore has gotten enough minutes this year, but also don't see it as deserving of all the outrage. Devin is putting up great numbers and his college career has been 4 years of letdowns. He deserves every minute of playing time he's gotten at center and if Wake can get him drafted it's good for the program. No idea why people keep referencing walk-ons who had to fill in for our disastrous guard play this year when talking about Moore's minutes. You have to steal from Dinos (2nd best 3 point shooter), Devin (senior posting record numbers), or Collins (universally considered more ready to play than Moore) - and it's pretty reasonable behind that crowd to focus on practice, development, and easing him into game situations. I disagree with it, but it's at least somewhat reasonable.

Anyone that watched Moore in high school and in his first few games at Wake know he wasn't ready to play legit minutes to start. At some point it looks like he became ready (although the reactions so far seem to put a LOT of stock into a Boston College win) - probably much sooner than Manning anticipated - and pretty much everyone would have preferred he played more. But nobody would be clamoring for him if he wasn't playing well, which means he was either very well recruited or he's been developed well. Either way Manning deserves some credit for it, and even if you bash the minutes he's given him what exactly do people think it cost us? 2 wins? Maybe even 3? Then again in our NC State win Devin/Collins/Dinos combined for 40 of our 77 points. Maybe we lose if we limit them and Moore hadn't played that well. And it's not like we were a dumpster fire heading into conference play - that came later.

He's still played more minutes than Chase Jeter at Duke.
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I would say the game in Raleigh was when it became clear that Moore needed more minutes.
 
ChrisL68 said:
I remember DCDeac freaking out because Dino didn't get Ty Walker enough minutes in pre-ACC games when he was like our 3rd string center.
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You have a weird sense of what freaking out is I guess. I certainly criticized Dino for not playing guys who needed to develop against cupcakes or making any effort to get them spot minutes. As a freshman, the lower ranked Moore has gotten 3 times the minutes Ty Walker got as a sophomore. Moore has 26 games played and 178 minutes so far this year. On the Dino plan he'd hit that mark around the time ACC play started in his junior year.

It's a pretty easy cop-out to say Ty Walker just sucked and Moore is just better. Kind of flies in the face of the love fest for recruiting rankings though.
 
DCDeac said:
You have a weird sense of what freaking out is I guess. I certainly criticized Dino for not playing guys who needed to develop against cupcakes or making any effort to get them spot minutes. As a freshman, the lower ranked Moore has gotten 3 times the minutes Ty Walker got as a sophomore. Moore has 26 games played and 178 minutes so far this year. On the Dino plan he'd hit that mark around the time ACC play started in his junior year.

It's a pretty easy cop-out to say Ty Walker just sucked and Moore is just better. Kind of flies in the face of the love fest for recruiting rankings though.
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Why is it a cop-out. Moore has 97 points and 62 rebounds as a frosh in 178 minutes. Walker totaled 115 points and 112 rebounds in 578 minutes as a junior.

Coaches should recognize who their best players are and play them. Walker was buried down the depth chart for a reason.

Just seems odd how hypercritical you were of Dino and then turn around and give Bz and Manning these huge passes for decisions that are often much more mystifying.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Why is it a cop-out. Moore has 97 points and 62 rebounds as a frosh in 178 minutes. Walker totaled 115 points and 112 rebounds in 578 minutes as a junior.

Coaches should recognize who their best players are and play them. Walker was buried down the depth chart for a reason.

Just seems odd how hypercritical you were of Dino and then turn around and give Bz and Manning these huge passes for decisions that are often much more mystifying.
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First, no idea where the Bzz nonsense is coming from. Never gave him any pass, hated the hire from the start, wanted him fired - just didn't support the billboard. No need to make stuff up. Second, no idea what you're arguing here. Are you comparing giving Walker his first legit minutes as a junior to Moore as a freshman - as if Moore walked on campus ready to play 10+ minutes a game?

I mean, just to dumb it way down - two highly ranked centers both thought to be borderline projects in need of development before they can contribute. One is getting significant run and has shown obvious improvement as a freshman - so much so that the main complaint is he's not getting enough playing time. But that playing time absolutely dwarfs 2 entire years of playing time that Walker was given - and he didn't develop for shit in those two years. In what possible universe is it hypocritical to criticize one of those approaches versus the other? How could you possibly lump them as the same?

Sure, I think Moore could have been given even more minutes earlier this year - I just don't think it's some cardinal sin. This is what is referred to as a good problem - having a future star struggling to get enough minutes playing behind a senior who happens to be the best player on the team. Moore will have 3 years (hopefully) to play as many minutes as he can, and even he'd gotten extra playing time this year our season still would have sucked, just maybe a little less. Not really losing much sleep over that.
 
A 1-12 team with an 11 game losing streak doesn't have a "good problem." That's a poorly utilized potential solution.
 
PhDeac said:
A 1-12 team with an 11 game losing streak doesn't have a "good problem." That's a poorly utilized potential solution.
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Solution meaning what? You think giving Moore 6-10 minutes of the Dinos/Collins/DT minutes would have resulted in... how many wins?
 
the entire argument about Moore getting less minutes than Van Horn and Watson is insane. They play completely different positions and with early absences of CMM and Hudson, the need was thee for guard-small forward. Moore plays behind Devin who is having a monster senior year, minus the suspension. Playing the two together is an argument, but Devin hasn't developed into the 4 that his size matches with no outside shot and only driving to the left. In addition, anyone who watched Moore against BC would have to admit that he is gassed after 6 minutes. Manning is developing him and I, for one, am excited to watch the freshman develop and dominate in years to come.
 
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