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Totally Unofficial 2023/24 Premier League Thread

deacvision7 said:
Sir Jim and company have some long work to do to fix the litany of terrible moves the previous front office did when "constructing" this roster
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For sure. And I don't think that this summer is going to be as eventful/impactful as people are expecting. There is too much work to do to fix it all in a short amount of time.
 
Honestly Man U needs to take the Arsenal approach which was semi-copied from the Liverpool approach. Three prongs:
  1. Pay off players who you can't move on from via transfer to just go away. Arsenal was pretty roundly criticized/bantered (including by some on this board) for buying out contracts for Mustafi, Ozil, Aubameyang, etc. But Man U is one of the richest clubs in the world, if not the richest. Eat shit on some contracts and get the players out of there. Reduction in wage bill is almost as important as getting transfer fees in anyway, especially as PL wages in the Big 6 have ballooned over the recent years. Sancho, Greenwood, Maguire, anyone who is expiring in 2025 and is unlikely to get you a good enough transfer fee, get them out. The short-term financial sink should pay out tenfold in the long run.
  2. Find a manager who won't take shit from anyone and commit to the bumpy road. I will freely admit that Arsenal has been fortunate to have Arteta work out to the degree that he has, but it took a lot of growing pains and several months of the club beating back clamor to fire him during 2020-21. But if you're Man U, you have to try to find someone who will come in and completely reset the culture of the locker room. If there is player pushback, see bullet #1. It will not be fun and it is likely that things will get worse before they get better, but I don't see a path forward that doesn't include the Man U board completely backing a manager and letting them dictate the culture from there.
  3. Lead with youth and scout/purchase on culture fit. I like United's crop of youth right now. Garnacho, Mainoo, even someone like Hannibal at the top end of true youth, they all can be at worst good squad players in a rebuild. Use them as the cornerstone and then recruit players that are in their same age bracket with a combination of potential and early career experience. Players like Ben White, Odegaard, Ramsdale, and more were critical in the last few years of having enough top-level experience to step into the team immediately while still being young enough to grow with the group. You can always supplement the squad with established veterans as you improve, see Trossard, Raya, Rice as examples. Again, early days may be painful but the payoff could and should be tremendous.
All of that is way easier said than done, again I think we have been very fortunate at Arsenal that the project has played out as well as it has. But Man U has been spinning in place for a few years now and been yo-yoing from UCL to UEL places and back, and the vibes have not really seemed that great even in the seasons where finishes have been in the top-4.

Actually I would prefer you guys keep doing what you're doing, forget I typed any of this out.
 
1. They’ve kind of done that but always replace them with similar players

2. Did that with LvG but even he couldn’t take the bullshit

3. I can’t think of too many really good youth players they squeezed out but dv might have more insight.

Liverpool and Arsenal both got to the point where they were shitty enough for the supporters/owners could accept your plan. United is still “too big to fail” and will probably have to keep failing until a manager turns it around out of nowhere because they won’t ever drop below too big to fail.
 
The hope for them would be that Ratcliffe and Co. can be enough of a new chapter that it’s finally possible to do a refresh. But point #1 has to be married with #3, you have to get rid of the locker room blights and then replace them with a completely new breed of player. You’re right that if they get rid of Sancho and then go buy an expensive, questionably motivated winger, it isn’t going to work.
 
I don't disagree with any of that. It's yet to be seen exactly how the Glazer/Sir Jim relationship will ultimately function, but so far there have been a number of moves within the management of the club that might indicate that they are looking to pursue a similar path to what you've stated. I think the payoff is easier said than done because there are some absolutely atrocious contracts at the club right now, but I defs agree that some dramatic action is needed. And in the short term I'm not looking for big money signings with big money wages to replace these other players. The reports are that this is consistent with the new INEOS thinking, but again, we will have to wait and see how it all plays out. But there are more players on the roster that I'd like to see go than those I'd like to see stay, and making that many changes will just take time.

Just for fun, here are players I would like to see stay and go: Stay: Bruno, Dalot, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund, Licha, Kambwala, McTominay, Bayindir. Go: Onana, Malacia, Shaw, Varane, AWB, Casemiro, Evans, Martial, Rashford, Antony, Sancho, Greenwood, Amrabat, Mount, Eriksen, Van de Beek, Williams. No real opinion on Amad, Pellistri, Alvaro, Hannibal, Gore, or Shoretire because of small sample size (except maybe Amad), but we should definitely try and rebuild with some of the younger players.
 
Didn't this snake do the same thing to Naglesmann at Bayern? Started touting himself to the club before they had even decided to let their current manager go?

Ew gross



he's a fine manager at all but it didn't work for him at Chelsea...or PSG....or Bayern
 
TBF, I wouldn't blame him fully for any falling out with PSG or Chelsea ownership/management, you'd be hard pressed to find a manager who doesn't end up on the wrong side of the club hierarchy for those two.
 
Gooner said:
TBF, I wouldn't blame him fully for any falling out with PSG or Chelsea ownership/management, you'd be hard pressed to find a manager who doesn't end up on the wrong side of the club hierarchy for those two.
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Good thing everything is all ship-shape in Manchester United's front office!
 
My guess is it will be either Emery or Arteta, but it really should be Iraola. What he’s done at Bournemouth is pretty incredible.
 
I'd give it to Emery today

But Arteta if Arsenal lift the trophy

Klopp on there is a joke this season - 5 points off the pace and his side has gone into a tailspin since he announced his resignation. Reeks of David Ginola winning player of the season in the 1998/99 season when Man United won the league and Ginola compiled just a decent 3 goals (T-90th), 10 assists (8th) in a season in which his club finished 11th in the table. Meanwhile, Dwight Yorke scored 18 (T-1st) and assisted 11 (7th) more goals on a team that won the damn Treble!
 
meh, it's a legacy nomination for his final season for a team that's going to finish 3rd

no big deal
 
It looks like they have at least 5 nominees going back to 2020/2021. And unless you are a really big fan of what Gary O'Neil has done at Wolves this season, there really isn't a good option for that nominee other than Klopp. Like Juice said, it's a legacy nomination, Liverpool have overachieved this season after injuries and departures left them much thinner than last season, and they won the League Cup so I'm totally fine having Klopp on there.
 
if 5 is the number, then fair enough, but Liverpool has not overachieved this season
 
I'll let the numerous Liverpool supporters on here weigh in themselves, but relative to preseason expectations and in-season absences, I think Liverpool being in the title race until April and winning a trophy was absolutely overachieving.
 
Is that a serious question?

They finished 4th last season and are worse this season... by some distance.
 
TripleDeacon said:
No one thinks Howe at Newcastle has an argument to be in the discussion?
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Sure he probably could be in the discussion, but I think it's sort of the opposite side of the Klopp coin for Howe. Newcastle was expected to seriously contend for top 4 and build on last season, but after a strong start they fell off a cliff during December and January and haven't really threatened to climb back into serious contention for 4th. While they've turned it around since March and are at this point more likely than not going to still end up in a European place, and acknowledging their own injury issues were severe, that midseason dip and not really coming close to meeting expectations even with the injuries doesn't have him over Klopp for me.

I'm more of the thought that the 5th spot should just be axed totally. And that they probably shouldn't be announcing the nominees until after Matchweek 38 anyway. If Villa were to completely implode and Tottenham stole 4th place from them, Emery obviously wouldn't be nominated. That is extremely unlikely to happen, but still possible. Bournemouth could fall all the way to 14th over the next two weeks, and while I still think Iraola has done an amazing job there, if Wolves were to jump up to 10th in the table, would it be outrageous to place GON over Iraola?
 
I'd put GO'N over Iraola today -- and that isn't a slight on Iraola.

Wolves were in shambles preseason and O'Neill has done a masterful job getting them structured.
 
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