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Updates to the Joel?

ChrisL68 said:
So hinkle used to seat 15k and has been renovated to under 10 k
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As the FSU Reno recently shows, if basketball is the objective, renovating the civic centers never works. It doesn’t fit the student seating problem. You just can’t put standing students in front of seated alums at the Joel. The design from the outset prevented any potential saving of the building.

Any renovation, rather than destruction, of the Joel, puts us once again at a huge disadvantage for the next 4 decades.

We can easily afford getting it right this time.
 
donaldross said:
It’s really not. It really just means you are talking about something you don’t know about. I’m not saying you have to have been to 175 campus venues like me. But without actually having been in person to 10, you really shouldn’t be cluttering the discourse.

You don’t hear me telling you how to be married, raise kids or what the soccer stadium should look like. I just have a weak frame of reference and shouldn’t be pretending otherwise.
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in order to have an opinion about this topic, you must:
1. have attended at least 10 home games in the last decade
2. have attended games at at least 10 other road venues, including The Leon County Civic Center, so you'll know what REAL environments look like
3. own at least 10 rental properties OR 5 hotels (EITHER is sufficient)
4. have your own reserved parking spot next to at least 2 local emergency rooms
 
That was a $10 million renovation not really comparable.
 
i actually do agree that it's time for something different. When the Joel was built (and through its first 15 years of existence) the only way to see all Wake games was to go to the Joel. over the last 20 years though, TV rights have allowed us to watch from much more comfortable seats at home, while also providing so much money to the schools that the lost ticket revenue is an acceptable tradeoff. It's time to acknowledge that we will never again pack the Joel regularly, no matter how good we are, and let's move on from it.

it will be interesting to see how Cameron changes over the next couple of years, once K is gone. If they fall off, there will inevitably be a falloff in fan support and Cameron will look much more like an old gym.
 
WokeandBroke said:
I have an idea: buy the fertilizer plant site. It's clearly close enough to campus, presently I suspect it is quite available, and build an all-brick 10,000 seat arena with one luxury box (Donald Ross, obviously).

Alternate location: Get the checkbook out and make a 100 year investment by buying the Parkway Ford site contiguous to campus and bracketed on the other side by Putters. Direct access to a divided highway, yet walking distance to campus. Doesn't cut into current footprint.

Then level the Joel and turn it into an engineering school. Profit.
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Level the law school and build the gym there.
 
Liquid Karma said:
Level the law school and build the gym there.
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It's on the right side of campus, but the access isn't great. You'd have to bring everyone through either Polo or U Parkway gates.

Moving the law school to Innovation Quarter would be dope, though (but I worry for Winston's sake the most likely landing spot is Charlotte).
 
For all I know, Wake already has the money set aside and will announce plans for a new arena tomorrow. But based on the numbers being tossed around on this thread, a lot of people are underestimating the cost. This is not like building a football field with a roof over it.
 
First a history lesson. When we made deal with City and Joel was built no person alive said it was too big. In fact, the bball world was envious and our competitors were jealous. The bball world has changed. Attendance has been going down across country for ten years. This includes Rupp Arena, and 75 other venues. We are now in the home theatre Netflix generation. In addition the product has changed. Arena size is but one issue among several. Would they build the Dean Dome again right now? I doubt it. One and done, NIL, Transfer Portal, NCAA absent, Football swamping basketball as a college spectator sport. Nostradamus couldn't predict where this is going. Now Currie has to pick right. I don't envy him. It could be Arena size is the least of the factors this sport faces. Some feel like they know. I don't know.
 
it would be interesting to see if the city would then want to construct a new multi-purpose arena to attract concerts and Disney on Ice and whatever else goes on at the Joel. or would the city just concede that all to Greensboro.
 
BarcaDeac said:
it would be interesting to see if the city would then want to construct a new multi-purpose arena to attract concerts and Disney on Ice and whatever else goes on at the Joel. or would the city just concede that all to Greensboro.
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Call it the Baylor model.
 
Hard to imagine the City could justify building another 15,000 seat arena when they couldn't manage the one they had and sold it on the cheap. Charlotte and Greensboro are always going to get the big acts over W-S. Even Asheville books better. Also, the university has taken over W-S since the Joel was built. If Wake Forest doesn't need you to build a new arena, you don't build it.
 
How come no one ever talks about beating coach K eleven in a row when we had The Joel and they had Cameron Indoor. Is it the arena or the players?
 
BarcaDeac said:
it would be interesting to see if the city would then want to construct a new multi-purpose arena to attract concerts and Disney on Ice and whatever else goes on at the Joel. or would the city just concede that all to Greensboro.
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Does anything go on in the Joel other than Wake basketball? I live in WS but I don't recall hearing about any other shows or concerts. Of course a lot of that has to do with the pandemic, but even before then I don't think it is getting a lot of use.
 
BiffTannen said:
Hard to imagine the City could justify building another 15,000 seat arena when they couldn't manage the one they had and sold it on the cheap. Charlotte and Greensboro are always going to get the big acts over W-S. Even Asheville books better. Also, the university has taken over W-S since the Joel was built. If Wake Forest doesn't need you to build a new arena, you don't build it.
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Seems like The City could go $50 million after you put in $1 billion.
 
macktheknife said:
How come no one ever talks about beating coach K eleven in a row when we had The Joel and they had Cameron Indoor. Is it the arena or the players?
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Because it was only 9 in a row. But yeah. Tim Duncan never lost a game in Cameron and only lost to Duke once in his career. He was 8-1 against Duke.
 
LilburnDeac said:
Does anything go on in the Joel other than Wake basketball? I live in WS but I don't recall hearing about any other shows or concerts. Of course a lot of that has to do with the pandemic, but even before then I don't think it is getting a lot of use.
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you're right. just went on the site and only other non Wake bball on the books are something with Yo-Yo Ma and the Globetrotters (separate events, sadly). I recall more concerts and such when I was there in the mid 00s, including seeing 311 there. but I guess Winston has largely gotten bypassed on the concert side of things. Greensboro has the coliseum for big shows, the Tanger Center, etc. but the Joel used to get a lot of shows back in the day from the likes of Phish, Widespread Panic, DMB, etc, before they got too big. Phish has a great live album from a show at the Joel.
 
IIRC, the same management company booked both the Joel and Greensboro Coliseum before Wake purchased the Joel from the city. Since the sale, very few non WFU related events have taken place in the Joel.
 
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