• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Updates to the Joel?

Confident that Currie will select the best long term option. Naturally, it would be dumb if WF invested in renovating LJVM if the ultimate plan is to build a new arena, even if that means not moving forward immediately.

Got to believe Currie is doing the necessary groundwork to vet the options, determine cost and line up the funding. FWIW, since WF now owns LJVM, it now qualifies as an on campus arena right? My guess is that whatever WF does it will be on the LJVM grounds. That area (football, basketball, tennis baseball) is now WF's athletic campus.
 
Confident that Currie will select the best long term option. Naturally, it would be dumb if WF invested in renovating LJVM if the ultimate plan is to build a new arena, even if that means not moving forward immediately.

Got to believe Currie is doing the necessary groundwork to vet the options, determine cost and line up the funding. FWIW, since WF now owns LJVM, it now qualifies as an on campus arena right? My guess is that whatever WF does it will be on the LJVM grounds. That area (football, basketball, tennis baseball) is now WF's athletic campus.

What's the obsession with it being "on campus"? It's not like it's Joe Robbie Stadium distance from Coral Gables. Which Wake student that wants to go can't get to the Joel?
 
well the monorail will make that issue moot so no worries
 
The renderings of Baylor's arena got me thinking so hear me out. We buy that stretch of University between campus and the Joel, turn it into a canal, build the W-S river walk, and then the students can have party flotillas to and from the Joel. No more excuses.
 
DR: do you have a top 3 list of your favorite college hoops arenas?
 
As the FSU Reno recently shows, if basketball is the objective, renovating the civic centers never works. It doesn’t fit the student seating problem. You just can’t put standing students in front of seated alums at the Joel. The design from the outset prevented any potential saving of the building.

Any renovation, rather than destruction, of the Joel, puts us once again at a huge disadvantage for the next 4 decades.

We can easily afford getting it right this time.

Disagree. You can do it like FSU did with the LCCC, or you could do it like GT did McCamish. We agree that the former would be insufficient. You can probably make the lower bowl steeper by widening the concourses (probably don't even need to raise or lower the court). Keep the upper deck along the sides of the court and remove the ends. You then have some combination of a one level steep wall (a la Xfinity Center in Maryland), a restaurant / bank of luxury boxes, or just an open standing room area like what the Alabama renderings appear to show. All of this would still likely be substantially less expensive than replacing the whole building, and would reduce capacity. But to get the steeper seating bowl most of us agree is needed you would need to demolish and rebuild the lower bowl.
 
Shame McArthur Court is no longer used. That place was amazing.
 
Cameron, Allen Field House, McArthur Court, Gallagher-Iba, Breslin Center.

Interesting, Breslin was built the same year as the Joel and is roughly the same size (15k). What about that arena do you like so much?
 
As the FSU Reno recently shows, if basketball is the objective, renovating the civic centers never works. It doesn’t fit the student seating problem. You just can’t put standing students in front of seated alums at the Joel. The design from the outset prevented any potential saving of the building.

Any renovation, rather than destruction, of the Joel, puts us once again at a huge disadvantage for the next 4 decades.

We can easily afford getting it right this time.

Interesting, Breslin was built the same year as the Joel and is roughly the same size (15k). What about that arena do you like so much?

Also has a similar 2 deck, ringed design.
 
Hilton Coliseum (Iowa State) is very underrated.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hilton+coliseum+iowa+state[/video]
 
It is annoying that DR and others are obsessed with Duke and Cameron Indoor. Coach K was a singular hire - Duke's AD was either prescient or lucky or just a really good judge of potential, since there wasn't much in K's record to indicate that he would go on to be the GOAT. I would say it was a combo - lucky and a good choice. Trying to emulate something like that is fool's gold. But we don't have to - we have our coach. How successful will be be? Who knows. Will he be a Coach K - doubt it, but how many of those are there? (I don't like the guy but you can't deny his success. You can deny his class, in the face of all the people that worship him, but you can't deny the success.)

Similarly, Cameron Indoor is a relic that has become awesome and cool because Duke was smart enough to do minor updates and not replace it - they recognized what they had, once K started winning. Did you ever hear anything about Cameron prior to '86? I doubt it. That environment has been built by success - the arena focuses and emphasizes it. I've probably been to more games at Cameron than even DR, and I can tell you that the corners of the student section start being a little empty - even at Cameron - as soon as the team starts having a down year.

That being said, the configuration of Cameron is ideal for creating a raucous environment. I feel certain you could not build a replica today even if you wanted to - the bleachers are way too close to the court, little room for press row, fire exits are tiny, etc. But I would be in favor of taking our renovations to the Joel in that direction - smaller capacity, seating more vertical and closer to the court, etc.

The size of our student body is a real problem when it comes to deciding where to put them. Cameron only seats about 1100-1300 students in their famous student section and they have a larger student body and a much larger grad student body than we do - and decades of success has made these kids fans before they even get there. How many seats could we safely set aside for students and trust they would show up? Right now - like 50. After a year or two of success, I would hope 500. Assuming reconfigured seating as discussed, if I had my choice I would probably put just 2-3 rows along one sideline and the rest behind the visitors basket. You raise the donor seats behind those students along the side so they can see. Then you do everything else you can to set the program up for success so the kids get excited and it becomes the place to be.

For all the excitement around Duke basketball, the majority of Duke students do not go to games and half of them couldn't care less. You don't need everyone, you just need enough.

This is a superb post and really ought to be the last word on the subject.
 
Does anything go on in the Joel other than Wake basketball? I live in WS but I don't recall hearing about any other shows or concerts. Of course a lot of that has to do with the pandemic, but even before then I don't think it is getting a lot of use.
I saw Elton John there, but that was probably 7 or 8 years ago.
 
Back
Top