Marriage

[JDawg]

I'm kind of hoping this starts happening soon, though not with my friends, of course. I'm going to be the Dennis Rodman of marriage rebounders, boxing out, clearing the glass, throwing 'bows.

you need to get out of a college town, that's the easy solution

 

[Goddamn Hippie]

Personally, I want to raise my children in a situation with at least two adults in the home (or community; I'm on some hippie shit). I don't know enough sociology or psychology to point to anything empirical, but I think it's best for most children (and therefore society) to be raised in a home with extensive and somewhat diverse adult influence.

Right on, brother. I was raised in such an intentional community in northeastern New Hampshire, and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. Days spent collecting drinking water from the nearby stream, wandering the forest alone in search of wild berries and mushrooms, and preparing decorations for the solstice celebrations. Nights spend dancing around the kiva fire pit, watching my parents smoke and make love both to each other, and various other members of our community. So much beauty and love that is lacking in the mainstream.

 

[El Chupacabra]

you need to get out of a college town, that's the easy solution

Good point.

 

[scooter84]

So, if one is anti-marriage, what are the alternatives?
1) - remain unattached. If one is attracted to the opposite sex, I guess this means playing the field? This could be fun for a while but seems generally unfulfilling. I think it takes a very specific type of person to be satisfied with this situation for the long-term (forever?).

2) - become attached in a monogamous relationship without the benefit of marriage. Then I have to ask - what is the difference? It just makes it easier to walk away, right? Doesn't the desire to maintain an easy exit simply indicate a lack of true commitment? Doesn't the existence of an easy exit make it more likely that one party will take said exit when the inevitable rough patch appears?

I think human nature causes most people to desire a partner - someone to share things with - burdens, joys, you name it. Joys become greater and burdens are lessened when you have someone to share them with.

This does not even consider the natural desire to procreate and the advantages of two-parent homes.

 

[dashionista]

So, if one is anti-marriage, what are the alternatives?
1) - remain unattached. If one is attracted to the opposite sex, I guess this means playing the field? This could be fun for a while but seems generally unfulfilling. I think it takes a very specific type of person to be satisfied with this situation for the long-term (forever?).

2) - become attached in a monogamous relationship without the benefit of marriage. Then I have to ask - what is the difference? It just makes it easier to walk away, right? Doesn't the desire to maintain an easy exit simply indicate a lack of true commitment? Doesn't the existence of an easy exit make it more likely that one party will take said exit when the inevitable rough patch appears?

I think human nature causes most people to desire a partner - someone to share things with - burdens, joys, you name it. Joys become greater and burdens are lessened when you have someone to share them with.

This does not even consider the natural desire to procreate and the advantages of two-parent homes.

this was basically the point I was trying to justify as well. Very well said.

 

[deacvision7]

So, if one is anti-marriage, what are the alternatives?
1) - remain unattached. If one is attracted to the opposite sex, I guess this means playing the field? This could be fun for a while but seems generally unfulfilling. I think it takes a very specific type of person to be satisfied with this situation for the long-term (forever?).

2) - become attached in a monogamous relationship without the benefit of marriage. Then I have to ask - what is the difference? It just makes it easier to walk away, right? Doesn't the desire to maintain an easy exit simply indicate a lack of true commitment? Doesn't the existence of an easy exit make it more likely that one party will take said exit when the inevitable rough patch appears?

I think human nature causes most people to desire a partner - someone to share things with - burdens, joys, you name it. Joys become greater and burdens are lessened when you have someone to share them with.

This does not even consider the natural desire to procreate and the advantages of two-parent homes.

Home-run.

 

[WakeandBake]

I'm 42 and recently divorced. started dating my ex-wife when I was 24. eloped in Jamaica at 29. No kids.

We were great buddies in college at App and partied all night and all that. Got into real life and got jobs and bought a home together and settled down and we became different people.

I am not anti-marriage whatsoever. I think it can be great for people and is good for society.

I will say this, it is hard to sustain a relationship for so long. It just is. Love is awesome but love kinda morphs over the years and its not always ooey-gooey, that shit wears off. You'd better have a partner that is down with the exact lifestyle that you are or else it is an uphill battle. I think the marriages that work are the ones where lifestyles dovetail very neatly.

 

[WakeandBake]

So, if one is anti-marriage, what are the alternatives?
1) - remain unattached. If one is attracted to the opposite sex, I guess this means playing the field? This could be fun for a while but seems generally unfulfilling. I think it takes a very specific type of person to be satisfied with this situation for the long-term (forever?).

2) - become attached in a monogamous relationship without the benefit of marriage. Then I have to ask - what is the difference? It just makes it easier to walk away, right? Doesn't the desire to maintain an easy exit simply indicate a lack of true commitment? Doesn't the existence of an easy exit make it more likely that one party will take said exit when the inevitable rough patch appears?

I think human nature causes most people to desire a partner - someone to share things with - burdens, joys, you name it. Joys become greater and burdens are lessened when you have someone to share them with.

This does not even consider the natural desire to procreate and the advantages of two-parent homes.

hmph. Divorce laws are bullshit, that's why.

 

[dartsndeacs]

It is bullshit that we give tax breaks to married people. I understand people with children, but why should two married workers have a smaller combined tax burden than two single people?

This both works and doesn't. It helps if your wife isn't working, you as the sole breadwinner get a break. But if you're both making bank it hurts.

 

[TuffaloDeac10]

This both works and doesn't. It helps if your wife isn't working, you as the sole breadwinner get a break. But if you're both making bank it hurts.

Yep

 

[dartsndeacs]

Which is why you generally find that those couples that stay committed but aren't married generally are affluent and make decent incomes. They done the math.

 

[BillBrasky]

I think a lot of people get married because all of there friends do. I know that when I hit my 30's and I'm still single (which has like a 90% of occuring) I'll end up looking around an realizing that all my friends are married, and that I can't go out bar hopping all by myself. Then I'll probably give in and start looking for a wife. Which is cool I guess, since getting married at 35 sounds ideal to me, if you're gonna do it.

 

[dartsndeacs]

Dude all my friends are cranking out kids now, its frickin rough, its like I need to be on the lookout for bro friends because all mine are getting picked off.

 

[Bronson Pinchot]

Good discussion all around. Appreciate the diversity of opinion. Though I'd never begrudge another person their right or want to marriage, I think taking a bit more progressive approach and removing some of the vestiges of older tradition to me will be very important if and when the time comes for me. There are three main conflicts for me. First, I couldn't in good conscience ask somebody else to take my name. Though it's down to me and my dipshit cousin to keep the name alive, I have no real interest in it beyond honoring my dad/grandfather. By a similar token, I'd feel weird taking her name, and awkward about hyphenating, especially since my current gf and I each have hard to say Polish names. Second, I can't justify the big consumerist aspects of it all. I know I can have a low key thing (though open bar is all I ask), as well as finding less bloody items than diamonds to exchange. I just hope the girl will share my opinion that the $ could be spent more responsibly (house/car/kids/future). Finally, my parents have definitely soured me on it all. My mom, especially. They endured a loveless marriage til we were grown kids, and then awkwardly split up. I feel like in that regard, marriage can be an obstacle if it's not chosen correctly. I suppose just writing all this stuff out helps me see a roadmap for how I might make future choices.

 

[dartsndeacs]

Or just realize its only one day and going with the flow ain't the worst thing in the world. If your GF agrees, cool, but if not I don't think its anything to rock the boat over.

 

[BillBrasky]

Dude all my friends are cranking out kids now, its frickin rough, its like I need to be on the lookout for bro friends because all mine are getting picked off.

Sadly, this is inevitable for me considering the fact that I went to nine weddings last year. I have however managed to become friends with bros 2-3 years younger than me (something that Winston's social scene encourages you to do) so maybe that will give me an extra couple years. Also my roommate/best friend has a very similar line of thinking as me on relationships and women in particular. So if we keep living together in the brocastle that may buy me more time as well.

 

[buckets]

Good discussion all around. Appreciate the diversity of opinion. Though I'd never begrudge another person their right or want to marriage, I think taking a bit more progressive approach and removing some of the vestiges of older tradition to me will be very important if and when the time comes for me. There are three main conflicts for me. First, I couldn't in good conscience ask somebody else to take my name. Though it's down to me and my dipshit cousin to keep the name alive, I have no real interest in it beyond honoring my dad/grandfather. By a similar token, I'd feel weird taking her name, and awkward about hyphenating, especially since my current gf and I each have hard to say Polish names. Second, I can't justify the big consumerist aspects of it all. I know I can have a low key thing (though open bar is all I ask), as well as finding less bloody items than diamonds to exchange. I just hope the girl will share my opinion that the $ could be spent more responsibly (house/car/kids/future). Finally, my parents have definitely soured me on it all. My mom, especially. They endured a loveless marriage til we were grown kids, and then awkwardly split up. I feel like in that regard, marriage can be an obstacle if it's not chosen correctly. I suppose just writing all this stuff out helps me see a roadmap for how I might make future choices.

So really your issue is with those that blindly follow the societal norms for marriage and weddings even when they contradict logic and the best interests of those involved? Doesn't seem like you necessarily have an issue with marriage in the sense of formally committing yourself to a monogamous relationship which you (hopefully) intend to last your life?

 

[El Chupacabra]

I think a lot of people get married because all of there friends do. I know that when I hit my 30's and I'm still single (which has like a 90% of occuring) I'll end up looking around an realizing that all my friends are married, and that I can't go out bar hopping all by myself. Then I'll probably give in and start looking for a wife. Which is cool I guess, since getting married at 35 sounds ideal to me, if you're gonna do it.

Dude all my friends are cranking out kids now, its frickin rough, its like I need to be on the lookout for bro friends because all mine are getting picked off.

Yup yup, this is my life.

 

[WakeandBake]

Good discussion all around. Appreciate the diversity of opinion. Though I'd never begrudge another person their right or want to marriage, I think taking a bit more progressive approach and removing some of the vestiges of older tradition to me will be very important if and when the time comes for me. There are three main conflicts for me. First, I couldn't in good conscience ask somebody else to take my name. Though it's down to me and my dipshit cousin to keep the name alive, I have no real interest in it beyond honoring my dad/grandfather. By a similar token, I'd feel weird taking her name, and awkward about hyphenating, especially since my current gf and I each have hard to say Polish names. Second, I can't justify the big consumerist aspects of it all. I know I can have a low key thing (though open bar is all I ask), as well as finding less bloody items than diamonds to exchange. I just hope the girl will share my opinion that the $ could be spent more responsibly (house/car/kids/future). Finally, my parents have definitely soured me on it all. My mom, especially. They endured a loveless marriage til we were grown kids, and then awkwardly split up. I feel like in that regard, marriage can be an obstacle if it's not chosen correctly. I suppose just writing all this stuff out helps me see a roadmap for how I might make future choices.

you seem like a good dude. You are over thinking on the first two. The name and the ring, you won;t care about all that when you are 40 I promise. You nailed it on the last one. My parents weren't loveless, I think they loved each other till my dad died 12 years after the divorce. I just think they couldn't stand living together any more.

That's the thing. It isn't about love, really. Hard thing to grasp when you are a bright-eyed, optimistic 25 year old looking for love. Love is awesome, I love love. But love is fluid. It changes over time. It settles in. It dims, somewhat - and that's not necessarily a bad thing. You can't keep up honeymoon-style love for your whole life, its impossible. Then you have to be able to live with the other person day in and day out - for decades. That's heavy shit, man. My only advice is to look long and hard at the red flags in the person you are sizing up for marriage and dig deep to decide if you can live with them, because those red flag things don't go away. What might be a cute quirk that's easy to overlook when you are 25 and dating becomes the main fucking thing that chaps your ass when you are 35 and living in the same house and married. Look long and hard at the red flags. The green flags are easy - they're hot, they're funny, they're considerate, they're sweet, they're sexy, they're attentive....great. Are they lazy? Are they stubborn? Do they have any hobbies or are you their hobby? Are they a little self-centered?

 

[PhilliesDeacs]

Dude all my friends are cranking out kids now, its frickin rough, its like I need to be on the lookout for bro friends because all mine are getting picked off.

Given your username I assume you graduated in 2003 and are around 31-32. I was in a similar situation, but there can be an extreme benefit. If your friends are dating/marrying the right kind of girls, they're bound to have friends along with a vested interest in being your wingman (nearly every girl in a relationship is averse to her BF/husband hanging out with a bunch of single dudes). And if your male friends' ladies are also your friends, they're much more likely to vouch for you. Unless you end up banging a bunch of her friends and tossing them aside. Then the ship has sailed.

This also does not account for the badger, who insists upon asking you about ladies in your life, if you want to be fixed up, etc, every time you hang out. They're the absolute worst.