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Marriage

Bronson Pinchot said:
Good discussion all around. Appreciate the diversity of opinion. Though I'd never begrudge another person their right or want to marriage, I think taking a bit more progressive approach and removing some of the vestiges of older tradition to me will be very important if and when the time comes for me. There are three main conflicts for me. First, I couldn't in good conscience ask somebody else to take my name. Though it's down to me and my dipshit cousin to keep the name alive, I have no real interest in it beyond honoring my dad/grandfather. By a similar token, I'd feel weird taking her name, and awkward about hyphenating, especially since my current gf and I each have hard to say Polish names. Second, I can't justify the big consumerist aspects of it all. I know I can have a low key thing (though open bar is all I ask), as well as finding less bloody items than diamonds to exchange. I just hope the girl will share my opinion that the $ could be spent more responsibly (house/car/kids/future). Finally, my parents have definitely soured me on it all. My mom, especially. They endured a loveless marriage til we were grown kids, and then awkwardly split up. I feel like in that regard, marriage can be an obstacle if it's not chosen correctly. I suppose just writing all this stuff out helps me see a roadmap for how I might make future choices.
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The name thing really isn't a big deal until you have kids. For the love of god, saddling your kids with a hyphenated last name is one of biggest dick moves a parent can make.
 
Yeah except my buddies wives know me well enough to not recommend me to their friends
 
BillBrasky said:
I think a lot of people get married because all of there friends do. I know that when I hit my 30's and I'm still single (which has like a 90% of occuring) I'll end up looking around an realizing that all my friends are married, and that I can't go out bar hopping all by myself. Then I'll probably give in and start looking for a wife. Which is cool I guess, since getting married at 35 sounds ideal to me, if you're gonna do it.
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Plus then you basically have your pick of the 25-30 year old ladies, which is also a good position to be in.
 
palmab03 said:
Yeah except my buddies wives know me well enough to not recommend me to their friends
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I'm lucky enough to still have a pretty pristine reputation with my buddy's wives/girlfriends, but I'm starting to think that's changing after the last six months or so. Mainly because my friends who like to live vicariously through me can't seem to keep their mouths shut. That being said, everytime I've ever been fixed up by a female it's been turrible. So in the end I'm not really losing that much.
 
BillBrasky said:
I'm lucky enough to still have a pretty pristine reputation with my buddy's wives/girlfriends, but I'm starting to think that's changing after the last six months or so. Mainly because my friends who like to live vicariously through me can't seem to keep their mouths shut. That being said, everytime I've ever been fixed up by a female it's been turrible. So in the end I'm not really losing that much.
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All my buddies wives/girlfriends like me, they just know I'm lazy and self-centered.
 
palmab03 said:
All my buddies wives/girlfriends like me, they just know I'm lazy and self-centered.
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Yeah same here. Although one or two have commented about how they don't much care for the fact that I've been messing around with some youngins.
 
A lot of the tax policies related to married people stem from the other legal and contractual realities of being married. Selling a home, retirement benefits, survivor benefits etc are all effected by marital status. Additionally, in States like Florida with homestead laws that restrict the devise of your principal residence at death if married you are going to have to address those realities in the tax code.

Also, there is now a huge penalty for being married if your household income is 450K. Two people co habitating could have up to 800K in income before getting dinged.

The flip side is trying to qualify for the earned income tax credit and other income restricted credits and deductions.
 
A friend of a friend, in his 40s, got married recently. Like most, I thought that if he'd made it that far he might as well just continue on and remain a cocksman. Someone brought this up to him and asked why get married now? He replied, "Man, I need the accountability." That's not why I got married, but I get it. Without my wife, I would be a total mess. I know this because if she ever leaves for a weekend or more, I turn into a 22 year old and all the old habits come back. Not to say I don't enjoy those times occasionally, but it's no way to live. Self destructive behavior, just like all of us eventually, gets old.

You can look at marriage as a fairy tale, Princess Bride thing, i.e. two souls becoming one through true love, etc. Or you can look at it as two people, who love each other, committing to live their lives together, with all that it brings, for their mutual benefit in all aspects.

If I had married my wife within the first year of meeting her, it would have been under the first viewpoint. But we got married about ten years after that first make out session (there was a good 6 year hiatus in there for college and after, thank God), and at that point the consideration of marriage took the form of the second viewpoint.

In other words, the decision to marry someone involves more than just loving that person. That should be a given. My two cents.
 
Great thread. Bake makes some great points. I think a lot of people get married too young. Most people are much different at 30 than they were at 25 and it's tough to ask another person to make the same transition, particularly if they have a very different lifestyle, career, etc.

As far as divorce, I only have one friend who has gotten divorced. They were high school sweethearts, dated some in college, and got married about a year after graduation. She left him because she felt like she hadn't lived yet and wasn't ready to have kids and do the wife thing. He took it pretty hard and tried to repair things to no avail. For the record, her parents through she was an idiot. He started back dating a year after and met an awesome very cute woman and got married. Just had their second kid and doing great.
 
I have been married for almost 13 years and together for 18. I am pretty sure I would be either dead or in jail without her. She is my moral compass for sure.
 
buckets said:
So really your issue is with those that blindly follow the societal norms for marriage and weddings even when they contradict logic and the best interests of those involved? Doesn't seem like you necessarily have an issue with marriage in the sense of formally committing yourself to a monogamous relationship which you (hopefully) intend to last your life?
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Aside from denying a biological imperative to spread your seed wide and far, I have no moral objections to long term monogamy, no. I just have qualms with the tradition itself. People who follow it blindly don't bother me either. I was curious to see female perspectives on the evolution of the tradition.

WakeandBake said:
you seem like a good dude. You are over thinking on the first two. The name and the ring, you won;t care about all that when you are 40 I promise. You nailed it on the last one. My parents weren't loveless, I think they loved each other till my dad died 12 years after the divorce. I just think they couldn't stand living together any more.

That's the thing. It isn't about love, really. Hard thing to grasp when you are a bright-eyed, optimistic 25 year old looking for love. Love is awesome, I love love. But love is fluid. It changes over time. It settles in. It dims, somewhat - and that's not necessarily a bad thing. You can't keep up honeymoon-style love for your whole life, its impossible. Then you have to be able to live with the other person day in and day out - for decades. That's heavy shit, man. My only advice is to look long and hard at the red flags in the person you are sizing up for marriage and dig deep to decide if you can live with them, because those red flag things don't go away. What might be a cute quirk that's easy to overlook when you are 25 and dating becomes the main fucking thing that chaps your ass when you are 35 and living in the same house and married. Look long and hard at the red flags. The green flags are easy - they're hot, they're funny, they're considerate, they're sweet, they're sexy, they're attentive....great. Are they lazy? Are they stubborn? Do they have any hobbies or are you their hobby? Are they a little self-centered?
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Cool post. I am super crazy about my current lady. Is she perfect? Nah, but pretty damned sweet. We share a big love of music, which is rad, and are both fans of the written word. Typically takes us about 25 minutes to do the Times Crossword. But we are also very different. She's a loud, self-assured Philadelphian, and a fiery redhead. I'm a quiet, reserved Southern boy. Has worked great for ~3 years, but we've never lived together.

Interestingly, though, for a self described feminist, she doesn't share any of my concerns about the traditions, would gladly take my name, etc.
 
Marriage has been great for me, but I feel like some people see marriage as fixing things. Marriage isn't magic. Couples don't stay together because they are married. They stay tougher because they are committed to making their partnership lasting and better. I would hope people don't enter marriage with the expectation that it will provide or create security in a relationship, but because they already feel secure in their relationship. Marriages aren't "special" per se.
 
Bronson Pinchot said:
Aside from denying a biological imperative to spread your seed wide and far, I have no moral objections to long term monogamy, no. I just have qualms with the tradition itself. People who follow it blindly don't bother me either. I was curious to see female perspectives on the evolution of the tradition.
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meh - as we discussed, with the inequality between genders in divorce court women can deal with receiving a diamond ring and changing their last name imo
 
buckets said:
meh - as we discussed, with the inequality between genders in divorce court women can deal with receiving a diamond ring and changing their last name imo
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Haha I would love to hear that as an argument: "You have to take my name because it's only fair once we get divorced."
 
awakeandready said:
Haha I would love to hear that as an argument: "You have to take my name because it's only fair once we get divorced."
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as a finance guy, I'm thinking, "I am the one taking all the divorce risk here. The least you can do is take my last name." life is all about risk and rewards awar!
 
If you ain't no punk holla "we want prenup, we want prenup!"
 
This thread bears all the hallmarks of the self-indulgent, mental masturbation that my generation does that causes older generations to think we're idiots.
 
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