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This maybe Haas moment, Grobe is banging on Wake, what thread is this in?

awaken said:
Before 2006-08 happened, the naysayers cited that Wake never had that kind of success before and we shouldn't expect it. Now it has happened, and it's being discarded as a fluke - a three year fluke! :tard:
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'06-'08 was a unique situation. Only Beamer is left from those years, and it can be easily said that all the schools have upgraded their coaches. We had the opportunity for success and we took advantage of it. Our offense has shown that we didn't keep up with the other ACC teams. We went from pretty good, to the worse. Thank you LOBO.
 
The history of Wake football pre 85 scholarship limit is meaningless. I remember when the big State U's would stockpile players just to keep other schools from getting those players. I think Ohio State had 130 on scholarship at one time. Under the limit you could field a competitive ACC team if you just got the best players off Southern Conference teams . If Appalachian can go into Michigan and win anything is possible. The limit changed football for small private schools. If you have a smart staff that gets it, and sells what we have and not what we don't have you can succeed. Kids are not stupid. They understand the difference in a degree from Wake Forest or NC State. And more importantly their parents understand it. And the great parents will brag their kid goes to Wake Forest. Not my kid plays football at NC State.
 
Nice. I'm glad someone else finally brought up the 85 limit.

LOWFers don't want to believe that the playing field is as level as it's ever been, but it's the truth.
 
Also back until like the mid 70s, we would play a majority of our games on the road just about every year, which hurt any chance we had of being competitive.
 
awaken said:
Before 2006-08 happened, the naysayers cited that Wake never had that kind of success before and we shouldn't expect it. Now it has happened, and it's being discarded as a fluke - a three year fluke! :tard:
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This isn't mentioned much but if you look at Bill Dooley's 6 year term as head coach in today's bowl system, we would've gone to bowls 3 out of his 6 seasons here and that was when we were probably behind the 8 ball when it comes to football more than we are now. Years 3,4,5 were bad under Dooley, but still it was a pretty good run.
 
VaDeac said:
Nice. I'm glad someone else finally brought up the 85 limit.

LOWFers don't want to believe that the playing field is as level as it's ever been, but it's the truth.
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Ron says this often. FSU gets the same number of scholarships we do.
 
This question is probably Haas MK infinity, but do we still have that foreign language requirement or did we finally ditch that? When I was there ('00-'04) everyone had to take 4 semesters, but I seem to recall we scrapped that a few years ago (or at least, now permit students to satisfy this requirement with "culture" or "history" classes about that language as opposed to actual language courses). Someone show off their knowledge.
 
KidA23 said:
This question is probably Haas MK infinity, but do we still have that foreign language requirement or did we finally ditch that? When I was there ('00-'04) everyone had to take 4 semesters, but I seem to recall we scrapped that a few years ago (or at least, now permit students to satisfy this requirement with "culture" or "history" classes about that language as opposed to actual language courses). Someone show off their knowledge.
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You have to take up to one level above the 200 level if that makes sense e.g. I placed into LAT 153 and then took LAT 211 to complete the requirement. There's also a cultural diversity requirement where you're basically supposed to take a class that's not about the western world.
 
Interesting to see the same posters who rant about the LOWF mentality of the Athletic Department slamming Grobe on this one. Upgrading our high school stadium and black-and-white billboard was in the "bare minimum" category for a team that is interested in competing at a national level.

We picked up a great coach, got some good recruits, turned the program around - when Stanford did that they raised capitalized on it, raised a ridiculous sum of money and upgraded their recruiting to an obscene extent. After the Orange Bowl there was really no significant effort to improve recruiting and Grobe is 100% right - Wellman and company just assumed he could continue spinning straw into gold.

I hope the administration has learned a lesson here, just like I hope they learned a lesson with the "gut" [Redacted] hire. If Clawson gets us back to a BCS bowl I sure as hell hope we capitalize on it this time around.
 
KidA23 said:
This question is probably Haas MK infinity, but do we still have that foreign language requirement or did we finally ditch that? When I was there ('00-'04) everyone had to take 4 semesters, but I seem to recall we scrapped that a few years ago (or at least, now permit students to satisfy this requirement with "culture" or "history" classes about that language as opposed to actual language courses). Someone show off their knowledge.
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The culture or history courses that you are referring to are the foreign language alternative courses. There are only about 2 of these a semester at most. These are for doctor diagnosed students who have a foreign language learning disability. I was one that was diagnosed in college. The professors will tell you that they can differentiate from the students who aren't trying and those that have a disability. Wake isn't making the curriculum easier but instead giving those with a disability a chance to fulfill the graduation requirement.
 
Still looking for evidence that Grobe was drawing interest from elite recruits who were only turned off once they saw campus.

Grobe didn't do the best he could with what he had. That's the deal.

Like someone else said, he had to know when he took a huge salary and hooked up raises for his assistants, that drew from the pool of money for infrastructure.

And we have more money from football now so we can do more things.
 
We had some pretty elite recruits visit campus in 2006-2007 but I'm not sure anyone is going to have evidence facilities turned them off. Probably a contributing factor we whiffed on them. Agree Grobe didn't do the best he could with what he had.
 
Do you really think the first time players ever see or know anything about the football facilities on campus is during official visits? Are you expecting to see 4 and 5 star players making officials to Wake and then telling the media that Wake's facilities were the reason they didn't commit here?

Officials are limited. Unofficials are not. A better question than "show me evidence Wake facilities negatively impacted recruiting" - which is obvious to pretty much everyone - is to look at how programs with similar situations turned them around and how long-term successful programs stay at the top. Stanford made huge investments in facility and recruiting upgrades. Now Duke is putting $250 million or more into upgrades after extending Cutcliffe and they didn't even make it to the Orange Bowl.

Winning and winning consistently are very different things. I just don't understand how people who have called out Grobe for basically getting lucky with the Fresh Deacs class could also subscribe to the idea that Wake can compete recruiting-wise while trailing the rest of the ACC in key aspects that draw in better recruits consistently.

Arguing that we succeeded once so there's no reason we can't succeed year after year is an overly simplistic argument. We didn't make the investments to achieve consistent recruiting results. Truth is we were so far behind when Grobe started here that it would have taken a huge, focused fundraising effort to tackle each area of weakness. What worries me is that's exactly what Duke is doing right now.
 
DC, who are the 4* and 5* that were interested in Wake? Simple question unless you're claiming that these kids have already researched our facilities before anyone asks them which schools are on their list.
 
Not sure these qualify as 4 star or above but James Wilson, Logan Thomas, Jay Howard, Jonathan Cooper, Greg Scruggs, Brennan Williams, Terrance Robinson, Devin Taylor. That is off the top of my head from the OB year or the following. I was looking at the 2012 and 2013 drafts about a month ago and couldn't believe how many of those guys we were in on late panned out. AJ Marshall was a 4 star. There was some Maryland DB and Bolles OL that ended up at UGA somewhere in there too.
 
Another problem we have is exposure to the HS coaches. About ten years ago, the University of Arkansas school of Education graduated 1,000 phys. ed. teachers and one physics teacher. That's 1,000 recruiters sent out for the Razorbacks. Who goes to Wake to become a gym teacher? What recruits have a coach telling them of the glory years with the Deacons? How many times did our coaches go to a HS to look at a 5* only to be told of a sleeper that would be good enough for us. Win Games, Get Respect.
 
PhDeac said:
DC, who are the 4* and 5* that were interested in Wake? Simple question unless you're claiming that these kids have already researched our facilities before anyone asks them which schools are on their list.
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I don't care enough to look it up and can't just rattle names off the top of my head - my Dad went to Bolles and has a few connections there, and during/immediately after the Riley years we were in the hunt for a number of 4 star prospects that didn't pan out. What you're suggesting and the reality of Wake football recruiting at the time are very different, but believe what you want.

You really think Grobe and the staff made no effort to recruit up after an Orange bowl appearance? Grobe is gone, he didn't perform well enough, the facility issue affects recruiting, and Clawson will hopefully energize the program and overcome those issues early and drive a commitment to upgrades in the future.

There's no need to rip on Grobe for stating the obvious. You guys are all about sending messages to the AD, I'm just surprised at the backlash.
 
CheesePritchard said:
Not sure these qualify as 4 star or above but James Wilson, Logan Thomas, Jay Howard, Jonathan Cooper, Greg Scruggs, Brennan Williams, Terrance Robinson, Devin Taylor. That is off the top of my head from the OB year or the following. I was looking at the 2012 and 2013 drafts about a month ago and couldn't believe how many of those guys we were in on late panned out. AJ Marshall was a 4 star. There was some Maryland DB and Bolles OL that ended up at UGA somewhere in there too.
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James Wilson. :rulz: Urban Meyer. :umkc:
 
DCDeac said:
I don't care enough to look it up and can't just rattle names off the top of my head - my Dad went to Bolles and has a few connections there, and during/immediately after the Riley years we were in the hunt for a number of 4 star prospects that didn't pan out. What you're suggesting and the reality of Wake football recruiting at the time are very different, but believe what you want.

You really think Grobe and the staff made no effort to recruit up after an Orange bowl appearance? Grobe is gone, he didn't perform well enough, the facility issue affects recruiting, and Clawson will hopefully energize the program and overcome those issues early and drive a commitment to upgrades in the future.

There's no need to rip on Grobe for stating the obvious. You guys are all about sending messages to the AD, I'm just surprised at the backlash.
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They did "recruit up" but the recruits clearly weren't as good as the ones who got us to the OB.
 
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