This maybe Haas moment, Grobe is banging on Wake, what thread is this in?

[PhDeac]

Yeah. I want us to win a natty every year in both sports. I want us to win every game that we play. Why even bother being a fan if you don't? The irony is that the sunshine brigade calls out their strawman of "rooting against the team" while their expectations are basically the same thing.

Well said and then...

If Clawson lasts 13 years here, he won't win any more games than Grobe did.

New brooms sweep very well.

This attitude holds us back.

Our attainable goal every year should be to beat our equals. Beat Duke, BC, 'Cuse and State. Then 3 or 4 of our OOC, and we'll be were we always hope to be, a consistent Bowler. An occasional upset of one of the tougher teams (Clemson, F$U, ND, etc). This is reasonable and do-able. We don't have to suck, and we ain't winning the Natty.

Yep. Heck, Texas could hire Jimbo or Strong. Chad Morris could leave Clemson. Or maybe Claw just kicks ass. No sense limiting us.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

This may be a stupid question, but when Wake bought the Joel, was the annex part of the deal?

 

[DeaconSlim2.0]

I'm not rooting for Clawson to fail. I'm merely stating reality. My position comes from the historical perspective of having observed WF football for 55 years. Jim Grobe did something in 2006-7-8 that had never been done before...or since....and yet some people have reached the conclusion that this should be the norm for WF football all the time. I'm not sure where the perspective for that position comes from, unless it's just based on the life experiences of some people on this board who are so used to getting everything they want that they feel that if they want it, it should happen....because there is no reasonable or logical support for a conclusion that something that has only happened one time in 100 years should magically become the norm for every year going forward. Get back to me after you've watched about 30 years of WF football and we will see what you think then.

Except for the fact that it actually happened...3 years in a row.

A one year instance could be written off as a fluke, but we reached the 8-9 win level 3 straight years.

There's no reason we couldn't do that again

 

[PhDeac]

A reasonable goal for the football team is a winning record each year....if they don't go crazy with OOC opponents. Short term & long term.

A reasonable goal for the basketball team...long-term...should be a little higher than that. Consistently make the NCAA Tournament and sometimes compete with the top 3 teams in the conference for the ACC Championship. I think that expecting to match Duke, Carolina & Syracuse year after year on a regular basis is unlikely. Chris Pauls and Josh Howards who are born in Forsyth County don't come along all that often. Nor do you find Tim Duncans in the Virgin Islands all that often. Obviously, the short-term goal should be to return to respectability and consistently play at least around .500 in conference.

bkf just cited three players who all started at Wake in an 11 year period as evidence of what doesn't happen very often. Dave Odom wasn't some elite coach and he brought in several elite ACC talents.

Jim Grobe isn't some godlike figure whose feats can't be duplicated. He couldn't even do it himself.

 

[DeaconCav06]

Indoor practice facility should be the lowest on the list.

 

[DeaconSlim2.0]

It happened 3 straight years once.....and there were some very lucky things that happened (the Duke FG block, the Phonso 100-yd pic, etc.), along with a perfect storm of talent that made that possible. I'm not saying that something like that could never happen again. I'm just saying that expecting it to happen on any kind of regular basis is just wishful thinking.

Saying that players making plays is "luck" implies that all football outcomes are based on "luck". If that's the case then there's no reason to expect anything, and just watch the games and wish for luck like you said.

Good coaching and conditioning leads to more "luck", so it's not ridiculous to expect to be "lucky" frequently. Especially after it happened in consecutive seasons.

 

[PhDeac]

Well said. It's crazy that people use this idea of "luck" to defend poor results instead of giving special players credit for making special plays.

 

[raldeac]

Wake had good football success with 'Peahead' in the '40s - then a lot of LOWF until Grobe. Duke was very good in the '50s and early '60s and then.... So unexpected success can happen. The big thing for LOWF is the $$$ in the new ACC. I'm sure we are still behind all other league programs, a lot. But, our $$ vs their $$$ are a larger percentage for us than they were before. We're in a more striking distance position - get a good coach and good things can happen more frequently.

 

[CheesePritchard]

Check the date in your diary on the 100 yard INT return, Bob.

 

[TBR]

Wake gave Grobe unprecedented levels of support. $25M. Now if we promised him facility upgrades when he signed that contract that's one thing, but otherwise, a smart man would have understood that he was choosing a high salary over facility upgrades. Remember, this was before the mega contracts. Think Wake was getting sub $10M (TOTAL) in television revenue at that point.

 

[Rafi]

If Josh Howard & Chris Paul had not been born in Forsyth County, neither one of them would have ever played for WF. What do you think the odds are of having two more players like those two being born in Forsyth County anytime soon?.

I would say the odds are decent. Harry Giles, the top player in the class of 2016, is from Winston-Salem. QA Academy in Winston-Salem has been a top 20 high school team for the past several seasons and they've had several national recruits.

 

[Diggitydeac]

If Josh Howard & Chris Paul had not been born in Forsyth County, neither one of them would have ever played for WF. What do you think the odds are of having two more players like those two being born in Forsyth County anytime soon? And getting Duncan was a complete fluke. He was going to be a swimmer if it wasn't for that hurricane.

One of my pet peeves re this board are the efforts to diminish Odom because of the "circumstances" around some of his best recruits such as Duncan, Howard, etc. We should appreciate results and success and give our coaches full credit when it happens. We mostly create our breaks,don't we? We attribute the losses to them fully but then we try to explain away successes.

 

[RChildress107]

If Josh Howard & Chris Paul had not been born in Forsyth County, neither one of them would have ever played for WF. What do you think the odds are of having two more players like those two being born in Forsyth County anytime soon? And getting Duncan was a complete fluke. He was going to be a swimmer if it wasn't for that hurricane.

Apparently pretty good. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/171066/harry-giles

Rafi beat me to it.

 

[Strickland33]

We also made a solid run at Quincy Miller (though we ultimately failed) if my memory serves me correct.

 

[KidA23]

Again I think a lot of Wake fans severely under appreciate how fertile our basketball recruiting territory is and how it should be expected that we capitalize on local talent when it comes calling. I think the fact that Jho and CP3 went on to be such successful pros, too, gives some Wake fans a sense that we were super lucky to have had access to locally home-grown stars in the first place (which I don't necessarily think was true).

 

[MACdeac]

#hatchout #academicsonlyBOTout #lowfout. Let the athletic program recruit at a competitive level. No one will complain. Money will flow. We will win.

 

[Strickland33]

Again I think a lot of Wake fans severely under appreciate how fertile our basketball recruiting territory is and how it should be expected that we capitalize on local talent when it comes calling. I think the fact that Jho and CP3 went on to be such successful pros, too, gives some Wake fans a sense that we were super lucky to have had access to locally home-grown stars in the first place (which I don't necessarily think was true).

This. I don't hear the same critiques levied at State and UNC. They get local guys all of the time. bkf's trolling, but he's not alone. Next, folks are going to say that the Charlotte-area recruits and Hargrave/Oak Hill guys don't count either.

 

[awaken]

Before 2006-08 happened, the naysayers cited that Wake never had that kind of success before and we shouldn't expect it. Now it has happened, and it's being discarded as a fluke - a three year fluke! :tard:

 

[WakeForestRanger]

Maybe Clawson turns us into the next Stanford. I don't think we have the money or the natural recruiting ground to pull off that kind of consistent success but I suppose it's possible. However there are a lot of things that have changed that makes winning at Wake now much easier than it has at any point in its history.

1. The ACC became a power conference. We now compete on a stage that sets us apart on the recruiting trail from the UConn's, SMU's and ECU's of the world.
2. The ACC tv and bowl deals will have roughly $20 million dollars per year flowing in to help pay for facilities and coaching salaries. Putting us further ahead of the have nots of the college football world.
3. We play 12 games per year instead of the 11 or fewer in the past. Schedule automatic w's out of conference and reaching bowl eligibility or even 8 or 9 wins in a good year is much easier than before.
4. ACC expansion increased our private school competition from one conference game annually to three. Competing against BC, Syracuse and Duke is a more level playing field than competing against UNC, GT and UVa.
5. ACC expansion starting with GT and going on through today increased our natural recruiting grounds to talent rich areas up and down the east coast.
6. Wake Forest became a national university, ranked in the Top 25 schools in the nation for academics. Our degree is much more attractive and a bigger selling point than used to be.
7. Our football schedule is much more attractive. You can tell a recruit that they will play Notre Dame, FSU, and Miami. That's much better than what the original ACC schedule offered for a football recruit.
8. Wake Forest has proven it can win a conference title in a power conference. Combine that with success at other elite private schools and the argument that you cannot win big at Wake became much weaker.
9. Our football stadium is a beautiful place to play a football game. The days of Peahead Walker driving our recruits to Duke to avoid showing them our stadium are over.
10. We have a football coaching staff that finally understands how to sell our university.

 

[ONW]

Again I think a lot of Wake fans severely under appreciate how fertile our basketball recruiting territory is and how it should be expected that we capitalize on local talent when it comes calling. I think the fact that Jho and CP3 went on to be such successful pros, too, gives some Wake fans a sense that we were super lucky to have had access to locally home-grown stars in the first place (which I don't necessarily think was true).

This is the problem. High School All-Stars don't come calling to a sub .500 program with Duke and Carolina in the same state.

ETA: When the focus of the program is to not finish last. Skip proved its possible to go toe to toe on a national level with anyone.