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Carolina (-5) at Wake - 8:00 ESPNU

TownieDeac said:
lowf with all these "unc lost" posts from our own

we played better; we deserve the headline
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How is it LOWF? It's just being realistic. 24 offensive rebounds should result in at least 35 more points. Not getting a bucket or getting to the FT line off of an offensive rebound are inexcusable. I'm not sure how many points UNC squandered in that regard. But give our guys credit. They played tough and smart, and Buzz called some really nice backdoor cuts to the basket to take advantage of UNC's lazy man defense, and the players executed.

That said, I hate the "X won or Y lost" debate. Bottom line, Wake played better last night, and that's why they won.
 
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This business of minimizing Wake's win by attributing the outcome to UNC's mistakes is dishonest and insulting to the players and staff. Every defeated higher ranked team could make the claim that they are the superior team and could not possibly lose apart from defeating themselves. But I watched the game and what I saw was WF repeatedly taking the ball to the basket against the superior height and quickness of the Tar Heels. In the 2nd half Wake scored the vast majority of their points in the paint. I saw WF consistently beat the Carolina press.

I also saw WF contend shots and yet give up a multitude of put backs. I saw WF shoot free throws like a bad junior high team. I saw Wake over-come its own poor performance in these areas to pull out a win against a top 20 team comprised of 4 and 5 star recruits.

Carolina demonstrated little in the way of teamwork and team chemistry. Wake played together and supported each other. On this night Wake was the superior TEAM and beat a collection of better athletes and coaches. On this day after, the Wake players and coaches should be congratulated and applauded...especially by their own "fans". Anything less is dishonest and insulting.
 
Who's in for the game at UVA? I'm thinking about rolling down there from NOVA to support the deacs! Who's with me? Let's rock John Paul Jones!
 
TwentyONE said:
Maybe, but the ball was loose momentarily and you can't fault a guy for hitting the floor. By the books, intentional use of the elbow as a weapon is an automatic ejection. They blew it.
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I tend to agree.

w8mkbt.jpg


I do think context matters a little bit when it comes to ejections. The ref lost control of the situation when he decided to let them fight it out. He shouldn't have thrown the elbow and got a foul (oddly, a "dead ball" foul during a no call? How did the ball die? They didn't blow it dead until he got possession.), but the right result is to stop the play when the fouling starts. There was no putting it back together once the refs blew it the first time, so they just decided to tag the aggressor with a compromise foul and move on.

eta: I do like the idea that the refs plan to give the game to Carolina was to put Wake on the free throw line at 3:1 ratio. Sometimes even the most sly plans fail.
 
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mebanedeac said:
This business of minimizing Wake's win by attributing the outcome to UNC's mistakes is dishonest and insulting to the players and staff. Every defeated higher ranked team could make the claim that they are the superior team and could not possibly lose apart from defeating themselves. But I watched the game and what I saw was WF repeatedly taking the ball to the basket against the superior height and quickness of the Tar Heels. In the 2nd half Wake scored the vast majority of their points in the paint. I saw WF consistently beat the Carolina press.

I also saw WF contend shots and yet give up a multitude of put backs. I saw WF shoot free throws like a bad junior high team. I saw Wake over-come its own poor performance in these areas to pull out a win against a top 20 team comprised of 4 and 5 star recruits.

Carolina demonstrated little in the way of teamwork and team chemistry. Wake played together and supported each other. On this night Wake was the superior TEAM and beat a collection of better athletes and coaches. On this day after, the Wake players and coaches should be congratulated and applauded...especially by their own "fans". Anything less is dishonest and insulting.
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LOWF
 
mebanedeac said:
This business of minimizing Wake's win by attributing the outcome to UNC's mistakes is dishonest and insulting to the players and staff. Every defeated higher ranked team could make the claim that they are the superior team and could not possibly lose apart from defeating themselves. But I watched the game and what I saw was WF repeatedly taking the ball to the basket against the superior height and quickness of the Tar Heels. In the 2nd half Wake scored the vast majority of their points in the paint. I saw WF consistently beat the Carolina press.

I also saw WF contend shots and yet give up a multitude of put backs. I saw WF shoot free throws like a bad junior high team. I saw Wake over-come its own poor performance in these areas to pull out a win against a top 20 team comprised of 4 and 5 star recruits.

Carolina demonstrated little in the way of teamwork and team chemistry. Wake played together and supported each other. On this night Wake was the superior TEAM and beat a collection of better athletes and coaches. On this day after, the Wake players and coaches should be congratulated and applauded...especially by their own "fans". Anything less is dishonest and insulting.
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That's as LOWF as it gets. For the 20 years pre-buzz, we regularly fielded teams comprised mainly of 4 and 5 star recruits.
 
woody9186 said:
Ha, the Holes absolutely lost the game. Marcus Paige missed about 3 or 4 wide open 3s, McDonald the same. They committed a bunch of stupid turnovers, and could not finish at all on putbacks off of offensive rebounds. And Roy was stupid not to go to a zone to cut off our dribble penetration and force us to take jump shots. If UNC looks semi-competent in those areas, they would have won by 10. But you do have to give our guys credit for taking advantage of UNC's missteps with their aggressiveness and effort.
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Yet we missed seemingly 2 dozen FTs and we're equally poor from 3.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
it's more LOWF to just say 'aw shucks, guys, we pulled one out on olllllld Carolina. just be happy"
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Maybe it's me, but I don't see the difference between that and "unc lost". Usually when people use the type of language you used, it implies either the other team gave the game away, or we got lucky shooting lights out from the 3. We outplayed them, got into their heads a bit, and forced a lot of their issues. Not the same thing IMO.
 
eye of the beholder, then. everyone complains until we scrape out a win, especially against an in-state team, then it's back to accepting mediocre performances
 
Call it what you will, it is the truth.

And this business of WF consistently recruiting 4 and 5 star athletes is hyperbole. That happened much more occasionally than regularly. LOWF or not, WF has consistently been undermanned against UNC and Duke and even NC State.
 
mebanedeac said:
Call it what you will, it is the truth.

And this business of WF consistently recruiting 4 and 5 star athletes is hyperbole. That happened much more occasionally than regularly. LOWF or not, WF has consistently been undermanned against UNC and Duke and even NC State.
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some of these older posters have been LOWF for so long they don't even know what it looks/sounds like anymore
 
mebanedeac said:
Call it what you will, it is the truth.

And this business of WF consistently recruiting 4 and 5 star athletes is hyperbole. That happened much more occasionally than regularly. LOWF or not, WF has consistently been undermanned against UNC and Duke and even NC State.
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It's not hyberbole. Wake under Odom, Prosser and Dino consistently had well over 50% of the squad being 4 star recruits at least. And the idea we have been undermanned against State is nonsense.

Against Duke and UNC? Sure, along with every other program except the elite ones.
 
mebanedeac said:
Call it what you will, it is the truth.

And this business of WF consistently recruiting 4 and 5 star athletes is hyperbole. That happened much more occasionally than regularly. LOWF or not, WF has consistently been undermanned against UNC and Duke and even NC State.
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First, whether something is 'occasional' or 'regular' is a debate over a silly, subjective label that's not capable of being proven or disproven. That aside, you do realize that traditionally, all players ranked in the top 125 on Scout.com are assigned 4-stars or higher, right? That means you're gonna find a heckuva lot of role players and future rotation players / back-ups in there.

Second, your second sentence -- taken as true -- is in no way exclusive of the notion that Wake has 'regularly' recruited 4-star players. UNC and Duke 'regularly' recruit All-Americans; Wake can recruit all the 4-star players it wants and still be woefully 'undermanned' against UNC and Duke. Indeed, that's pretty much exactly what happened from 1990 through 2010.
 
So based on the fact that we shot so many more free throws (rightfully I might add) than UNC last night, how bad will we get hosed by the refs in the return bout at Chapel Hill later in the schedule?
 
From 2002 to 2010 WF recruited 18 4 stars and 1 5 star player. Some of these were named Swinton, Walker, and Woods who proved to be much less than advertised.

Over the same period UNC recruited 14 5 star players and 14 4 star players and that includes 2007 when they did not bring in a single recruit. The disparity between Wake and Duke will be even greater.
 
mebanedeac said:
From 2002 to 2010 WF recruited 18 4 stars and 1 5 star player. Some of these were named Swinton, Walker, and Woods who proved to be much less than advertised.

Over the same period UNC recruited 14 5 star players and 14 4 star players and that includes 2007 when they did not bring in a single recruit. The disparity between Wake and Duke will be even greater.
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Don't be hating on K-Slay
 
Let's use another standard: since the 1985-86 draft, WF has put something like 19 players in the NBA. Over the same period UNC has put something like 53 in the NBA.

That doesn't sound like equivalent talent to me.

It is false to say that Wake Forest has consistently recruited players of comparable talent to UNC. That may have happen once or twice in the last 30 years; but it has never been the rule.
 
mebanedeac said:
Let's use another standard: since the 1985-86 draft, WF has put something like 19 players in the NBA. Over the same period UNC has put something like 53 in the NBA.

That doesn't sound like equivalent talent to me.

It is false to say that Wake Forest has consistently recruited players of comparable talent to UNC. That may have happen once or twice in the last 30 years; but it has never been the rule.
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Where did anyone ever say that?
 
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