BOT met yesterday, any moles on this board.

[devi8]

I lived in the handicap suite across from the infirmary my soph year because a couple of us had lost housing points for having booze in the rooms when we were frosh. It turned out to be the best suite on campus......6 people (a single a double & a triple) but had 4 showers, two shitters, and at least a couple of stand-up urinals. Plus the RA was up on the 4th floor and scared to come down to our suite.

 

[teachndeac]

yeah, i may be wrong. but i did a quick internet search and pulled up the floorplans for kitchin and saw that most of the suites show that the two rear rooms are singles whereas all four were doubles in my day. if so, that's 6 sharing a bathroom rather than 8 which is a significant difference

 

[CallowayKid]

When I was a sophomore or so at Wake (around 2008), a common explanation for rising tuition costs was a perverse game of keeping up with the Joneses, or something like that. Wake's tuition was rising, but basically at the same rate as other "peer" institutions; the idea was every school would continue raising costs because no school wanted to appear different from the others.

Does anyone still say that?

This is the main component of the increase. Wake's former provost did a bunch of academic research on this issue, and I had the opportunity to talk to her about it at an alumni event. She said the major factor in the ever increasing tuition prices across the country was due to this arms race among Universities to attract top students. And as long as other schools kept increasing their facilities, amenities, and tuition rates, Wake would have no choice but to follow suit if we didn't want to be left behind.

Another thing working against Wake that people seem to forget is we have a much smaller endowment than many of our peer universities. While Wake's endowment at about $1.1B seems like a lot, when you compare it to the likes of Duke ($6.0B), ND ($6.9B), Vanderbilt ($3.7B), Emory ($5.8B), Rice ($4.8B), UVA ($5.1B), Wash U in St. Louis ($5.6B), and Johns Hopkins ($3.0B), WFU has a lot of less cash flow coming off our endowment each year that we can used to fund general operations. In order to try and keep up with these schools, that shortfall has to be made up through tuition. Because of this I don't think most of Wake's financial issues have as much to do with bloated administrative expenses, (because our peers schools have the same or more bureaucracies and high paid officials as we do), but more to do with the Reynolds family not giving us as much money as Bloomberg, Duke, Vanderbilit, and Woodruff did to their respective institutions. And until some rich alum like Charlie Ergen decides to give us a bunch of money, we're probably going to be at a disadvantage for the foreseeable future.

 

[PhDeac]

I would love to see a comparison of endowment growth over the last 100 years between Wake and peer institutions.

 

[Deac83]

i bet 8 dudes don't share a shower and a shitter like we did in the day (79-83). also have nicer place to work out, eat better food, etc.

colleges have gotten themselves in an arms race in terms of facilities and feel like they need to keep up or fall behind. they've become more like country clubs for pampered picky eating cul de sac kids. the cost of their "product" (education) is just a fraction of the total price of attending

Two words: Air Conditioning.

 

[dartsndeacs]

We also have a hospital that we own though that not all those schools have, right?

From my reading of our financials, the hospital is actually as big or if not a bigger impact on our bottom line than the entire university.

 

[CallowayKid]

We also have a hospital that we own though that not all those schools have, right?

From my reading of our financials, the hospital is actually as big or if not a bigger impact on our bottom line than the entire university.

Vandy, Duke, Johns Hopkins, UVA, and Emory all have Hospitals that are as good/large (if not better) than Wake's.

 

[WFU Lurker]

yeah, i may be wrong. but i did a quick internet search and pulled up the floorplans for kitchin and saw that most of the suites show that the two rear rooms are singles whereas all four were doubles in my day. if so, that's 6 sharing a bathroom rather than 8 which is a significant difference

That would indeed be significant. There are definitely 8 person suites out there, but I'm not sure the exact mix.

 

[dartsndeacs]

Vandy, Duke, Johns Hopkins, UVA, and Emory all have Hospitals that are as good/large (if not better) than Wake's.

And ouch. Last year it looked like UVA earned about 550 mil, Duke about 100 mil, and Wake lost 10 mil, so lets put that in perspective when complaining about tuition hikes. (although +15 mil when backing out depreciation). But that's not going to cover the 100 mil in new construction costs we spent last year (and 60 mil the year before)

Wake be goin' broke.

 

[jhmd2000]

And ouch. Last year it looked like UVA earned about 550 mil, Duke about 100 mil, and Wake lost 10 mil, so lets put that in perspective when complaining about tuition hikes. (although +15 mil when backing out depreciation). But that's not going to cover the 100 mil in new construction costs we spent last year (and 60 mil the year before)

Wake be goin' broke.

Not sure how one goes broke in a business where you make $20m tax free dollars a year playing college sports (win or lose, as we have well proven) and you don't have to pay most of your labor force; let alone at a place where you charge people what amounts to an annual salary enough to feed a family of four to live in a dorm (and you have a waitlist of people willing to pay that price). That seems like something a person of average intelligence should be able to pull off without losing money.

 

[dartsndeacs]

Its easy to see how you can go broke if you try to keep up in spending with your friends who make 5x as much as you.

 

[WFU1977]

It is flawed logic like this that makes me so glad that Tiefenthaler is gone. Wake did just fine for 160 years not mimicking peer schools. We started down that path without the endowment. While I rejoice in the higher national ranking, not sure it is really worth it. Wake has a serious problem with bloat. Go to any fundraising event and there are at least 10-20 fundraisers there pestering the crap at of you. And these people are probably all making over $100k. I would love to see how the percentages of teaching related employees to administrators has evolved under Hatch as a percentage of all college employees. Walk around Reynolda hall some day and see all the assistant deans with no real portfolios.

This is the main component of the increase. Wake's former provost did a bunch of academic research on this issue, and I had the opportunity to talk to her about it at an alumni event. She said the major factor in the ever increasing tuition prices across the country was due to this arms race among Universities to attract top students. And as long as other schools kept increasing their facilities, amenities, and tuition rates, Wake would have no choice but to follow suit if we didn't want to be left behind.

Another thing working against Wake that people seem to forget is we have a much smaller endowment than many of our peer universities. While Wake's endowment at about $1.1B seems like a lot, when you compare it to the likes of Duke ($6.0B), ND ($6.9B), Vanderbilt ($3.7B), Emory ($5.8B), Rice ($4.8B), UVA ($5.1B), Wash U in St. Louis ($5.6B), and Johns Hopkins ($3.0B), WFU has a lot of less cash flow coming off our endowment each year that we can used to fund general operations. In order to try and keep up with these schools, that shortfall has to be made up through tuition. Because of this I don't think most of Wake's financial issues have as much to do with bloated administrative expenses, (because our peers schools have the same or more bureaucracies and high paid officials as we do), but more to do with the Reynolds family not giving us as much money as Bloomberg, Duke, Vanderbilit, and Woodruff did to their respective institutions. And until some rich alum like Charlie Ergen decides to give us a bunch of money, we're probably going to be at a disadvantage for the foreseeable future.

 

[marquee moon]

This is the main component of the increase. Wake's former provost did a bunch of academic research on this issue, and I had the opportunity to talk to her about it at an alumni event. She said the major factor in the ever increasing tuition prices across the country was due to this arms race among Universities to attract top students. And as long as other schools kept increasing their facilities, amenities, and tuition rates, Wake would have no choice but to follow suit if we didn't want to be left behind.

Another thing working against Wake that people seem to forget is we have a much smaller endowment than many of our peer universities. While Wake's endowment at about $1.1B seems like a lot, when you compare it to the likes of Duke ($6.0B), ND ($6.9B), Vanderbilt ($3.7B), Emory ($5.8B), Rice ($4.8B), UVA ($5.1B), Wash U in St. Louis ($5.6B), and Johns Hopkins ($3.0B), WFU has a lot of less cash flow coming off our endowment each year that we can used to fund general operations. In order to try and keep up with these schools, that shortfall has to be made up through tuition. Because of this I don't think most of Wake's financial issues have as much to do with bloated administrative expenses, (because our peers schools have the same or more bureaucracies and high paid officials as we do), but more to do with the Reynolds family not giving us as much money as Bloomberg, Duke, Vanderbilit, and Woodruff did to their respective institutions. And until some rich alum like Charlie Ergen decides to give us a bunch of money, we're probably going to be at a disadvantage for the foreseeable future.

Don't hold your breath:

http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=ba3bf86c-609d-4dee-a425-a880a3f5e64d

 

[DeaconCav06]

I would be curious to see how the endowment grows moving forward as wake shifted from regional to national university and started attracting more competitive candidates.

 

[BeachBumDeac]

Go to any fundraising event and there are at least 10-20 fundraisers there pestering the crap at of you. And these people are probably all making over $100k.

I call bullshit on both these sentences, unless you're talking about a huge fundraising event on homecoming weekend.

And I definitely know the second sentence is bullshit

 

[Wrangor]

My oldest son starts kindergarten this fall. He'll be a college freshman in Fall 2027. If the cost of attendance increases 3.8% a year, it will cost $101,557 for him to attend Wake Forest for his freshman year.

Something in Washington needs to change. Something in Winston-Salem definitely needs to change.

This is almost why it is pointless to save for college. Better to be cash poor and get need based aid and scholarship. I would have to pack away 50k a year to save enough to send my two kids to a private school.

 

[jimjenkdeac]

Now that this thread has shifted from its original form, just curious, what percentage of Wake incoming students are from North Carolina and how does that compare to 30 years ago?

 

[WinkinDeac]

Vandy, Duke, Johns Hopkins, UVA, and Emory all have Hospitals that are as good/large (if not better) than Wake's.

Ditto Wash U.

And no way the suits hitting you up for cash at fundraisers are making $100K. Their top bosses maybe, but for a lot of them it's barely above an entry level position.

 

[teachndeac]

not arguing with you logic wrangor (you're probably right) nor calling you out, but somehow something went terribly awry with our system of higher education if the best strategy for the middle class is to spend rather than save and expect someone to give them $ later.

 

[teachndeac]

i wonder how a school could do if they marketed themselves as a "no-frills" university. very basic spartan dorms, minimum student recreation facilities, pedestrian architecture, but top notch education. would it fly?