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BOT met yesterday, any moles on this board.

Wrangor said:
This is almost why it is pointless to save for college. Better to be cash poor and get need based aid and scholarship. I would have to pack away 50k a year to save enough to send my two kids to a private school.
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Yep. Saving for private school for us essentially requires over a $50k cut in annual income, $1000 a week.

We have two friends who are both tenured faculty at my university. Their daughter graduated from one of the IB programs in the county and got into Wake and several other elite privates. She took a full ride to Arizona State.

10-20 years ago I would have thought they were crazy. Now I think it's smart. A free ride and quarter of a million dollar head start upon graduation beats a Wake degree.
 
so ron hires [Redacted]. world scratches head (some scream out loud from day one). [Redacted] loses. ron doubles down. Bz continues to lose. ron couldn't be happier. he's all in.

people begin to question every decision he has made. they see his record is pretty poor and he is not putting winning teams on the field. hatch does not step in. BOT remains aloof. now people are starting to take a look at the "university problems" (rather than just the athletic department) and begin to ask even bigger questions and look at the record of hatch and the BOT's apparent lack of oversight OR everyone in a position of power is on the same page and heading in a direction that many alumni feel is not necessarily the right way.

nice job ron. you just brought down an entire university leadership structure!*


*not actually the case since once bzz is gone most will douse the torches and put away the pitchforks but it would be an interesting article.
 
I honestly don't know if I could have gotten into the same grad schools I did if I had gone to a huge state school. I would like to think that I would, but in reality I could very easily see myself wasting potential by going out every night.
 
One could very easily make a case that you'd be better off paying full price to go to Wake than taking a full ride to Arizona State. I once ran and posted numbers that showed the investment in a WF education actually made sense relative to the perceived "better value" of going to UNC.
 
WRS said:
One could very easily make a case that you'd be better off paying full price to go to Wake than taking a full ride to Arizona State. I once ran and posted numbers that showed the investment in a WF education actually made sense relative to the perceived "better value" of going to UNC.
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I think the one huge advantage to paying he money is that you surround yourself with other people who are paying the money. You leave with a much stronger network of friends than if you went to state school. In today's economy your network is as important as your skill.

Attending a school that is price exorbitant means you will get to know other people of means which will open doors in the future.

I didn't really take advantage of this whole at wake because I wasn't wired that way but now that I look back I see that as a huge miss on my part. I should have networked more, especially with the professors. Wake has a really great network and I didn't really take advantage of that.
 
WRS said:
One could very easily make a case that you'd be better off paying full price to go to Wake than taking a full ride to Arizona State. I once ran and posted numbers that showed the investment in a WF education actually made sense relative to the perceived "better value" of going to UNC.
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please, make that case again. i find it hard to believe.
 
WRS said:
One could very easily make a case that you'd be better off paying full price to go to Wake than taking a full ride to Arizona State. I once ran and posted numbers that showed the investment in a WF education actually made sense relative to the perceived "better value" of going to UNC.
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A large portion of the "value" is determined by the profession you want to get into. For some professions, paying the price for an elite national University is worth it. For quite a few professions, it simply is not.

Those that are pining for the ole days of Wake being a regional University need to give up on that dream. That ship sailed awhile ago and it wasn't Wake's fault. As a University, many of these changes have been done to keep up with a changing landscape in higher education. Private schools need to have a substantial national reputation in order for them to justify the costs. You think Wake isn't worth it, imagine if you paid 42k a year in tuition to send your kid to Furman. That is still a regional University and would be an utter waste of money because nobody outside of SC and the surrounding areas have really even heard of Furman. It is used to be somewhat similar with Wake's reputation but now it is not. That is because Wake started actively "recruiting" the best students from all over the country. Upon graduation, these students often leave NC (does not happen as frequently with a heavy NC-based student population) and go on to increase the reputation of the University. When I started out applying to grad schools, places in the midwest and NE had only a minimal idea of Wake and the type of education it offered. That has changed quite a bit over the past decade.

If you don't like the strategic goals of the University, buck up and get over it because they don't just change on a whim overnight. Some on here seem to think Hatch is pushing Wake to be more like ND but you guys do realize Hatch was hired BECAUSE of his vision. That is to say, he isn't the one pushing it. It is Wake and the BOT and the Administration itself that is pushing this change and they hired Hatch because they thought he was the individual to help promote those changes. They are doing this because they know, or at least think, that in order to keep Wake competitive as a school for the coming century or more, it needs to build up its national reputation. It sucks that this has placed the cost of education so high that many don't want to send their kids to the school but there will always be students/families willing to pay this kind of money for this type of an education. I do not know if Wake will be successful in making the complete transition nor if it is ultimately the right decision, but I can tell you from my experience in higher education for over a decade as a professor this is the direction I would go in if I were in charge. Some alums may not be happy about the changes or the increased cost preventing them from sending their kids to college but it is better than having graduated from a University that is more or less irrelevant in a half century (where it would be IMO if it stayed focused on keeping costs "down", though still quite elevated versus a state school, as a private and regional University).
 
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DeaconCav06 said:
I honestly don't know if I could have gotten into the same grad schools I did if I had gone to a huge state school. I would like to think that I would, but in reality I could very easily see myself wasting potential by going out every night
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I think it is spelled "maximizing".
 
WRS, I see that argument for Wake vs. Arizona State. Not vs. UNC, similarly ranked institution.

BigTree, you're making a straw man argument. I don't see people arguing against being national. I see people arguing against bloat and incompetence.

Cav, I went to Duke for grad school and I met people across all the schools and departments who went to all kinds of private and public schools. Of the top of my head, I can only think of two grad students out of the 60 or so I knew from my program who went to elite national privates. My best friend went to Cornell.
 
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jimjenkdeac said:
Now that this thread has shifted from its original form, just curious, what percentage of Wake incoming students are from North Carolina and how does that compare to 30 years ago?
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No idea what it is now, but in the late 80s, the % of NC students was around 37-38%.
 
WRS said:
One could very easily make a case that you'd be better off paying full price to go to Wake than taking a full ride to Arizona State. I once ran and posted numbers that showed the investment in a WF education actually made sense relative to the perceived "better value" of going to UNC.
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Arizona State, sure, it's a western party school known for its poor academics. But UNC? Like them or not, they are known as one of the elite universities in the country. I'd have a hard time paying Wake Forest's tuition over UNC's if I was getting in-state tuition, and I sure as hell cannot justify it other than personal bias.
 
WFU1977 said:
It is flawed logic like this that makes me so glad that Tiefenthaler is gone. Wake did just fine for 160 years not mimicking peer schools. We started down that path without the endowment. While I rejoice in the higher national ranking, not sure it is really worth it. Wake has a serious problem with bloat. Go to any fundraising event and there are at least 10-20 fundraisers there pestering the crap at of you. And these people are probably all making over $100k. I would love to see how the percentages of teaching related employees to administrators has evolved under Hatch as a percentage of all college employees. Walk around Reynolda hall some day and see all the assistant deans with no real portfolios.
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PhDeac said:
WRS, I see that argument for Wake vs. Arizona State. Not vs. UNC, similarly ranked institution.

BigTree, you're making a straw man argument. I don't see people arguing against being national. I see people arguing against bloat and incompetence.

Cav, I went to Duke for grad school and I met people across all the schools and departments who went to all kinds of private and public schools. Of the top of my head, I can only think of two grad students out of the 60 or so I knew from my program who went to elite national privates. My best friend went to Cornell.
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It is not a strawman. It was in response to the post above in which he said Wake did just fine before it started to "mimick" its peers. You will note that "mimicking" refers to the move towards a national University. Call it a strawman if you want, but people feel that way. Check on the Campus Update thread for more people pissed off at the changes happening to Wake especially with respect to infrastructure which is, again, a large part of the transition.

Also to separate administrative "bloat" from the transition to a more national University is erroneous because a fair amount of the bloat is due to the transition. That poster specifically complains about bloat at fundraising, which is of course DIRECTLY related to the need to raise more money to continue to expand the University. I don't think the issues are nearly as separate as you do apparently.
 
A university can be national without bloat.
 
PhDeac said:
WRS, I see that argument for Wake vs. Arizona State. Not vs. UNC, similarly ranked institution.

BigTree, you're making a straw man argument. I don't see people arguing against being national. I see people arguing against bloat and incompetence.

Cav, I went to Duke for grad school and I met people across all the schools and departments who went to all kinds of private and public schools. Of the top of my head, I can only think of two grad students out of the 60 or so I knew from my program who went to elite national privates. My best friend went to Cornell.
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Cue the tag "PhDeac has elite privates."
 
PhDeac said:
A university can be national without bloat.
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I would be curious as to your example of an elite, private national University that has substantially fewer administrators/administrative costs than Wake. I am familiar with the workings of a few such institutions and they aren't exactly lean on the administrative side. To each their own, I suppose.
 
It's funny to see all of these blatantly regional opinions on the value of education at universities with a purported national profile.
 
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