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Michelle Obama gets into a scrap with Republicans

jhmd2000 said:
The same way I plan to teach them not to fall out of airplanes. That's a pretty dumb question, respectfully.
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So your children should willingly take advantage of their position in the market relative to others simply based on their race?
 
TownieDeac said:
Not to mention that we've slayed the generational dependence straw man many, many times, AND that's not what this thread was about.

Good on you for trying, numbers, but jh has YEARS of trolling experience on you.
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Very true.

Also worth pointing out is that it's nice to have the privilege to not have to think about racism if you don't want to JHMD. This is an advantage that people of color certainly do not have.
 
PhDeac said:
So your children should willingly take advantage of their position in the market relative to others simply based on their race?
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[says the person who supports de jure discrimination as a matter of both law and policy in 2014]
 
JHMD Logic

1. Racism is a problem in the marketplace
2. Pointing this problem out simply makes those the target of this racism into "victims"
3. These "victims" are gifted things from the government and become dependent on public works projects for help, removing all individual autonomy these "victims" have.
4. Anybody who wants to address point number one supports de jure discrimination.
5. The solution is to tell our kids to work harder.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
JHMD Logic

1. Racism is a problem in the marketplace
2. Pointing this problem out simply makes those the target of this racism into "victims"
3. These "victims" are gifted things from the government and become dependent on public works projects for help, removing all individual autonomy these "victims" have.
4. Anybody who wants to address point number one supports de jure discrimination.
5. The solution is to tell the victims of discrimination to work harder and if you're white, continue to enjoy the fruits of being the favored class.
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FIFY
 
I see that we are doing this again. Fine.

Let's wait and see where your preferred (and tired) steady drumbeat of victimhood and helplessness leads. I think a message of empowerment, personal responsibility and autonomy is a better bet, but vote how you please.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
JHMD Logic

1. Racism is one of many problems in the marketplace, which is also full of opportunities. We should focus on the opportunities and promote hard work and personal responsibility to help people make the most of their opportunities and minimize the impacts of all problems, including but not limited to racism.
2. Becoming fixating on this one of many problems reinforces its malignant effects and distracts from opportunities that exist for all people. No, life is not fair, but a life you choose of your own making is the right of every free person. Our policies should focus on helping people reach their potential, rather than constantly reminding them of what we think they cannot do on their own.
3. The government's solutions to these problems have created secondary effects, which far too many people are too proud and arrogant to admit or address. These people would far prefer to focus on anything but the systemic problems that their solutions have failed to solve, aggravated and in some cases created brand new. These people post on message boards a lot. The better, proven solutions of personal responsibility, hard work and personal autonomy are a missing component of too many of our current policies.
4. People who openly support de jure discrimination....openly support de jure discrimination. If you're mad, go be mad at them.
5. The solution for all children is to tell them the truth: life is not fair, but if you waste your time lamenting your challenges, limitations and blaming other people for your circumstances, you may be correct in your analysis (at least to some degree), but you probably will not get very far doing that. We all know this to be true....why don't we make policy this way?
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If you are going to fix it, please fix it correctly.
 
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How does personal responsibility account for why black college graduates don't get jobs at the same rate as white college graduates? Life isn't fair, fine, so black people have to work harder just to get a job. Not a big deal in and of itself if it didn't permeate almost all aspects of both society and the workplace in the form of preconceived notions, stereotypes, overt racism, and systems structure to benefit people coming from a privileged place (I.e. Capitalism where an implicit assumption is we are all equal to start - undermined by the concept that there is rampant racism in the market)

My solution is to address the reasons why black people don't get hired at the same rate as white people. TO cast this problem as solvable by "personal responsibility" with the catch all of "oh well life isn't fair" would come across as far more earnest if you weren't a gainfully employed white person who doesn't suffer any of the consequences of this "life isn't fair" garbage that gets spewed
 
Life isn't fair for white people or anyone but is considerably more fair for white people than people of color. To just say life sucks sometimes lets not victimize actual issues is just ignorant IMO. Furthermore it fits perfectly into the 2014 conservative rationale: higher education is bad as it spreads the liberal agenda, climate chance is a farce, evolution is a trick from the devil and creationism is the right answer.

The GOP is taking the position on a multitude of issues that less knowledge is the correct way to go. Not only is this unsustainable for the long term prospects of the GOP when looking at demographics and who fits into the GOP grand plan (spoiler it's predominantly white males) it's damaging for our evolution as society as a whole.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
How does personal responsibility account for why black college graduates don't get jobs at the same rate as white college graduates? Life isn't fair, fine, so black people have to work harder just to get a job. Not a big deal in and of itself if it didn't permeate almost all aspects of both society and the workplace in the form of preconceived notions, stereotypes, overt racism, and systems structure to benefit people coming from a privileged place (I.e. Capitalism where an implicit assumption is we are all equal to start - undermined by the concept that there is rampant racism in the market)

My solution is to address the reasons why black people don't get hired at the same rate as white people. TO cast this problem as solvable by "personal responsibility" with the catch all of "oh well life isn't fair" would come across as far more earnest if you weren't a gainfully employed white person who doesn't suffer any of the consequences of this "life isn't fair" garbage that gets spewed
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It doesn't. Why do you think all unfairness stems from race? Is it possible that there are other types of unfairness? When did your fixation morph into a fetish?

Concluding (as we must) that race is one of many problems (I would place class at the top of the list, since I find it to be a better proxy for advantages to achieving future education and professional success), we return (as we should) to the solution. Mine is telling people the truth and letting them know that whatever has happened in the past brought us all to this point, for better or worse. Sure, there's a ton of things we would change if we could, and those things that can be changed should be changed and we share a collective responsibility to do it. The best way to do it is to a) identify real problems and b) administer proven solutions. Where is the proof that our government can intervene in the lives of racial minority to correct past wrongs, and put them on better footing with set asides, preferences and outright subsidies? We tried that with the original Americans. How did it go?
 
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The jhmd "personal responsibility" thread derail is now more reliable than the bkf money in sports derail.
 
bigdoublezero said:
The jhmd "personal responsibility" thread derail is now more reliable than the bkf money in sports derail.
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Personal responsibility isn't important and there isn't very much money in sports. Carry on.
 
In jhmd world, what is the argument for public education in general?
 
PhDeac said:
To make all taxpayers pay for his kids to attend the school of his choice.
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I love this so much, since I'm in favor of school choice and you always argue against it. Congrats on another fine attempt to weasel out of ugly side of your positions.
 
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