Michelle Obama gets into a scrap with Republicans
- Thread starter Wrangor
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My hope is that my children will tell the truth, work hard and have respect for others. I will ask my two year old tonight if he feels differently, but I'm guessing he's not yet all that concerned about the insecurities that plague middle aged men from Florida.
I hope that both of our children make as much progress as our generation made from its parents, and they from theirs, on issues like the ones that you frequently raise. At the same time, if people (and I'm not pointing fingers) convince themselves and their children that the only (or even primary) explanation for why some succeed and others fail is privilege, biases and general unfairness, those people will probably need to get very used to those feelings; they may be around a while.
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
We got sidetracked after you took a crack at everyone you agreed with for following in step.
Either way, I think it's pretty obvious that being in favor of healthy food at schools isn't really a controversial topic. That's the point that some on here are making JHMD - its legitimately not controversial and there are still the regulars battling it out, firmly entrenched with their Tea Party compadres.
Either way, I think it's pretty obvious that being in favor of healthy food at schools isn't really a controversial topic. That's the point that some on here are making JHMD - its legitimately not controversial and there are still the regulars battling it out, firmly entrenched with their Tea Party compadres.
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
Yep don't worry PH, JHMD will rest easy tonight with his white privilege. Now what you do tonight, as a middle-aged man from Florida, is wholly a matter of personal responsibility. Step up PH. It's your time. Don't hide behind any more excuses of victimization. It's pretty pathetic PH, really.
Keep pushing the victim and privilege shtick. Ban bossy, change the name of football teams, tell everyone how life isn't fair. When the team needs a stand up double, lay down the best bunt in the business. Small ball has an all-star game, too. Make sure to incessantly remind young people that they are helpless victims who will never amount to much, and whatever you do, deny that you are doing it when confronted with it. (Done and done, if this thread is any indication). Just don't blame me when that brilliant strategy plays itself out to its foreseeable conclusion. Good luck. You're going to need it.
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I don't spend all day figuring who is and who isn't, since it doesn't solve anything.
Strickland33
Well-known member
You know them when you see them, though, right?
You are free to waste your time however you choose, just please quit pretend you are doing anything constructive. When you start telling and showing people what they can do (as opposed to what you have concluded they are incapable of), then you will have turned an important corner. *fingers crossed*
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Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
Oh so now it's victim AND privilege schtick we're pushing. I don't know that it's possible to claim there is still racism in the marketplace and then not also believe there is privilege present. The racism sure as hell isn't negatively impacting white people on an individual level.
We get that it is very cathartic for you personally to constantly remind everyone else how aware you are of privilege. We read the boards too. The difference between us is not that we have different opinions about whether racism lingers or that privilege exists---we all know this to be true. THE difference is our parting of ways as to whether anointing every issue with this fact is not a solution to anyone else's problem besides yours. There are 100 people on the boards right now. If each and every one of them were to assure you that they too agree that racism lingers and privilege exists...then what? Explain to me this victim's high.
If you take two kids, and mentored one in the victim-privilege narrative morning-noon-night and you were to mentor the other in a message you would surely dismiss out of hand as "bootstraps!!!!1111", which one do you honestly believe in your gut would make the most of their potential? What's the better message IN THAT CHILD'S life (as opposed to a balm for your self-loathing)? Give me an honest answer to this question and I will never address this issue again. Deal?
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
I don't know which is better between telling a kid the truth and selling them a false paradigm. I would personally probably be truthful. I'm also not discussing individual impact, I'm talking about policies at large.
Also it has nothing to do with catharsis for me, it's just completely unclear to me how you continue to say "privilege exists" and your answer to that is "ignore it to ensure we avoid victimization"
Also it has nothing to do with catharsis for me, it's just completely unclear to me how you continue to say "privilege exists" and your answer to that is "ignore it to ensure we avoid victimization"
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
Which again returns to my other point: it's really nice to be able to just shrug off the privilege issue because you have it. It's a sure fire sign that you actually do have that privilege.
Deacon923
Scooter Banks
Kids don't have to be mentored in privilege/discrimination or taught it by politicians. A black kid living in East Greensboro whose mom cleans toilets at the Proximity for rich white people understands it very, very well. All they have to do is look at TV and the internet and the world around them, and experience how they and their parents are treated when they walk into a store.
The question is not whether government programs send a message of "you're a victim". The question is whether government will send a message of "your government wants to help you" or "you're on your own" or worst of all "your government is actively enforcing the status quo racism". Whitewashing history and reality and asking government to take no notice of the presently existing racism in our society is not empowering the people who are discriminated against, it's empowering the people doing the discriminating to keep on doing it.
How does the government intend to render this aid? How good a job have they done? What are the building blocks of success? My answer is accountable, responsive public schools and functional families of origin. It seems that the government can't f those up fast enough for its own liking. The government is $17T upside down, has open borders and can't even run a website or Carbonite to back up its own email. If that organization offers its help, I'm going to pass.
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Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
And you're going to continue doing nothing to remedy the problem too.
Privileged to do so.
Privileged to do so.
Well, I'm not going to do what you would have everyone do, but sadly, your ideas do not preempt the field. I'm going to focus on solving things in a way that I think is far more productive, including setting a good example for my children and continuing to push opportunities in my organizations towards the most qualified people (whether they look like me or not). I owe that to the people on my team, and yes, it is a privilege to watch them succeed as a group and as individuals.
You do...whatever it is you think you are doing.
Deacon923
Scooter Banks
Ah, I see we've moved on to generic government-bashing. The best thing government ever did to help poor black people was forcibly integrate the schools. The private sector and the white powers that be responded to that by opening more and more private schools to help whites escape. Then white people spent years lobbying to effectively re-segregate the schools and get taxpayer money for their effectively segregated private schools. Of the two, at least government tried to make a positive impact, and by doing so impacted the racial attitudes of several generations of Americans for the better.
I will certainly agree with you that many government interventions purporting to help poor people have been ineffective or worse (urban renewal, anyone?) but it's disingenuous to chalk that up to "government = bad because emails". Rather, you should recognize that government action has often been co-opted by private, rich (white) interests and those interests have driven some of the worst abuses. It doesn't have to be that way. Rather than selling the government = bad narrative, I prefer advocating for better government for ALL the people, not just the rich, usually white ones. Unfortunately that often results in people like you having to get all squirmy when government takes action that doesn't line up with your rich white preferences.