• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Richmond @ Wake Forest - 7pm - ESPN3 - Prediction/Game Thread

Maybe he's simply disappointed in the loss, but Manning's comments make it seem like he doesn't have a good grasp on the team.
 
WFFaithful said:
Maybe he's simply disappointed in the loss, but Manning's comments make it seem like he doesn't have a good grasp on the team.
Click to expand...

Like with the question on John Collins he said that Dinos and Devin are too good to give him more minutes. Let's ignore for a second that JC might in fact be better than Dinos already. Let's ignore for a second that playing O'Brien at the 3 with those 2 bigs instead of JC is insane.

There were 19 minutes available to play with either Dinos or Devin off the court to play JC. He got 12. That makes no sense.
 
He also doesn't factor in defense at all to his answers.

Yeah Dinos got a double-double, but he probably allowed more than he scored.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
Like with the question on John Collins he said that Dinos and Devin are too good to give him more minutes. Let's ignore for a second that JC might in fact be better than Dinos already. Let's ignore for a second that playing O'Brien at the 3 with those 2 bigs instead of JC is insane.

There were 19 minutes available to play with either Dinos or Devin off the court to play JC. He got 12. That makes no sense.
Click to expand...
Yeah, really. The reason Collins didn't play more is because hey, Dinos and Devin both got double-doubles! That is faulty thinking. Disregards what Collins could've done in there with those additional minutes instead of Dinos. Disregards the fact that Dinos gave up like double what he scored on the defensive end. That answer is a bit concerning.
 
Maybe Manning is holding back the legend that is John Collins. Kind of like what Dean did to MJ. Thats the only real explanation. Need to see no more of o'brien, and much less of Vanhorn
 
Another thought is that if he gives JC a lot more minutes Dinos stays home next season and he would like to have both of them.
 
John Collins has played 10 more minutes than O'Brien this season.

In 25 minutes, O'Brien has 0 pts on 0-3 fg, 2 reb, 2 blocks.
In 35 minutes, Collins has 31 pts on 11-18 fg, 15 reb, 6 blocks.

So why is Collins only playing 10 more minutes than O'Brien?
 
Collins also had 3 fouls in those 12 minutes and missed some big free throws. Dinos sparked a comeback in the 2nd half and was shooting over 50% from deep and 80% from the line before his game-closing meltdown. Even minutes-adjusted he outrebounded Collins. Who gives a shit if b-level role player McClinton or c-level roleplayer VanHorn was on the floor at the end (clearly Manning doesn't), neither should be the focus in closing out a game. Crawford/Dinos/Devin/Wilbekin are no-brainers at this point in the season there.

Don't forget it was Crawford and Devin who gave up that dagger bucket-and-foul after Wake cut it to 2 with under 3 minutes left. At this point in the season I'm not sure if it's more important to get Collins minutes or to try to get Dinos going. Argument can be made either way. It did look like Dinos was breaking out of his shooting funk until the end though. If he'd stayed cold to start the 2nd half maybe Collins gets more run.

Bottom line is there are only 80 minutes at the 4/5 spots per game, and Dinos/Devin/Collins/Moore can't play any other positions. Plenty of minutes next year though as Collins takes over Devin's role, and true stretch fours in the college game are incredibly valuable. As frustrating as he can be at times, Dinos has elite potential and we need shooters on the floor. Collins is just more Devin for now, so finding him minutes will be tricky.
 
O'brien is yesterday's news given an overdue arrival in Maui.
 
deaclite said:
Another thought is that if he gives JC a lot more minutes Dinos stays home next season and he would like to have both of them.
Click to expand...

You have to find a way to play them together some and split the minutes of JC, Collins and Dinos more evenly. Collins is too good to languish on the bench just to keep the Greek happy. Collins can play above the rim and actually puts the ball in the basket when he shoots in traffic. He makes his free throws too.
 
deaclite said:
Another thought is that if he gives JC a lot more minutes Dinos stays home next season and he would like to have both of them.
Click to expand...

Who gives a shit. You put your best players on the floor. Danny failed miserably with regards to that tonight. Seriously, he needs to be drug tested after that coaching performance. Did he eat a brownie of the pot variety as a pre-game meal??
 
Did poor foul shooting hurt the Deacs? Yes. Too many turnovers? Certainly. Did strange line ups and substitution patterns affect the outcome? Seems that way. Did all three contribute to the defeat? Absolutely.

The root problem of WFU basketball has been lousy defense. This year is no different. The first consideration of players, coaches and fans is always offense. Defense is an afterthought, if it is even considered at all. I was hopeful Manning would usher in a change. That doesn't seem to be happening. Disappointing.
 
Manning's comment about Hudson/Watson in Maui was pretty revealing.

Rondale's gone.
 
wakephan09 said:
Manning's comment about Hudson/Watson in Maui was pretty revealing.

Rondale's gone.
Click to expand...

Yup. Could be a mid season transfer situation like Overton last year.

He somehow failed to live up to expectations and when we heard that he committed we could not find him anywhere on the Internet (seriously). That's impressive.
 
I don't have a problem w/ much that Manning said in that press conference. He's definitely cagey with some answers, but I'd prefer he deal with a lot of this stuff internally.

Yeah, Collins should play more. Those minutes should come directly from O'Brien. I'm not as down on Dinos as most here seem to be. When he's hot, I like that he can pretty much get his 3 up at will. The fadeaway 3 out of the timeout was a bad shot, but I didn't like Crawford's 24 footer, either (it just happened to go in). The whole team fell apart at the end... Not just Dinos.
 
At the end of the day the loss doesn't bother me that much. If we had a full roster we likely would have won the game. It's the substitution patterns that make me nervous, but I am willing to give Coach Manning the benefit of a doubt to see what he can do with this team at full strength.
 
Wonder if we'll get more info on Watson once Hudson has returned to the lineup... Seems like you'd have to address that discrepancy, right? Manning can ignore it in a post-game press conference, but when Hudson is on the court and Watson is MIA, I'd assume you have to say something.
 
DeacsATS said:
Wonder if we'll get more info on Watson once Hudson has returned to the lineup... Seems like you'd have to address that discrepancy, right? Manning can ignore it in a post-game press conference, but when Hudson is on the court and Watson is MIA, I'd assume you have to say something.
Click to expand...

But would we even notice?
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
There are things to be happy about. The freshmen really are good. Crawford is going to be a stud down the line for going through these growing pains early... and he's already putting up numbers. Collins has been borderline dominant when he's played. Moore hasn't done much but has had at least 1 flash of great offensive potential in each game. Couple that with the 2014 class being better than expected it gives you hope that the 2016 class is too.

But you can't overlook that Manning has a big problem with his rotations. I hope he changes his philosophy on some things, coaches can get better. [cough] riverboat ron [cough]
Click to expand...

This is basically where I'm at.

At the risk of this further becoming an echo chamber, here are my thoughts on last night:

1.) Why is O'Brien on the floor at all? I understand TVH (and I actually disagree with FckVwls that TVH should be limited to 10 minutes in that rotation... Maybe now with Hudson back, but not last night), but O'Brien has to the worst player we've had on the floor in meaningful minutes in years. He is a complete nonfactor on both sides of the floor. I remember thinking when he put him in with ~6 minutes left in 1H that it was just Manning trying to get McClinton some rest going into the under 4 timeout, and then he stayed in past that. Makes no sense.

2.) I don't really have a problem with Dinos playing over Collins. I do have a problem with Collins not eating up every one of those 19 minutes without Dinos or DT. I think some here are ignoring some of Collins flaws, mainly that he is more of a flashy defender than a good one (those fouls came pretty damn fast). I mean, yeah, he's still streets ahead of Dinos on that end of the floor, but it's not like he's going to solve our defensive woes, either. And he's a pretty bad FT shooter so far (SSS, I know). If you want to take 3-5 minutes from Dinos and give them to Collins, fine, but I don't think it's necessary to give JC the bulk of Dinos' PT.

3.) That zone. After being stubbornly adamant that you're not going to run a zone for the first, what, ~35 appearances here, you run a 2-3 zone for the first time against a team that, at that point in the game, was shooting 80%+ from deep? What? Look, I'm firmly of the belief that we should be running situational matchup zones at the very least, but not then. Not there. Especially not when it's as raw and lazy as whatever the hell that was. Hell, we were having trouble keeping up with screen rotations in M2M. Why let Richmond exploit that even more? It made no damn sense. I couldn't believe he stuck with it through two possessions, and he ended up sticking with it for a solid five minutes. Brutal.

All of this being said, I generally like Manning as a game coach. His mistakes this season, IMO, come down to that one persistent sub pattern (O'Brien over McClinton/JC, TVH over McClinton in crunchtime), which should be mostly fixed for Maui when Hudson gets back, and that zone, which I assume/hope was a one-time screwup, or at least something that will get better over time with practice.

I don't really care about his postgame comments, for the same reasons as ATS. I prefer he handles most of that stuff internally, and I'm willing to give him enough credit to assume he knows about things like Dinos' defensive woes and what Collins is capable of. As others have said, he took friggin' Tulsa to a top 30 defensive team in a year. That doesn't happen on accident.

(The turnovers, on the other hand, well... IIRC, that was an issue with his Tulsa teams, too, and I assume that's a product of pushing the tempo like his teams have tended to do.)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top