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The Electoral College

You mean like how wrong the framers were about civil rights? Women's rights? Voting for Senators?

People like simos should learn a little history.
 
One thing I'm not sure of is whether they envisioned the end of slavery and minority voting. At least some were slave owners as I recall, but when the South was pushing for slaves to vote and the North didn't want people without free will to vote at all, as they would vote the same way as their masters, I'm not sure they saw an end coming. And, I'm not sure they ever thought they'd get a full vote.

As an aside, it irritates me when people talk about the Three-Fifths Compromise as a bad thing. It's an anti-slavery provision people. Anyway, I'm off to watch Westworld again.
 
RJKarl said:
You mean like how wrong the framers were about civil rights? Women's rights? Voting for Senators?

People like simos should learn a little history.
Click to expand...

So you also want to bag the system of electing the Senate? Cali should get five Senators and Wyoming one?
 
simosfrostyone said:
So you also want to bag the system of electing the Senate? Cali should get five Senators and Wyoming one?
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Once again simos shows his ignorance. The Founding Fathers set up the election for US Senators to be by state legislatures. It wasn't until 1913 that the public got to pick their senators.
 
Biggus Deacus said:
One thing I'm not sure of is whether they envisioned the end of slavery and minority voting. At least some were slave owners as I recall, but when the South was pushing for slaves to vote and the North didn't want people without free will to vote at all, as they would vote the same way as their masters, I'm not sure they saw an end coming. And, I'm not sure they ever thought they'd get a full vote.

As an aside, it irritates me when people talk about the Three-Fifths Compromise as a bad thing. It's an anti-slavery provision people. Anyway, I'm off to watch Westworld again.
Click to expand...


They never advocated for slaves to vote. They just wanted to count them for the purpose of maximizing the number of representatives the slave states got.

The Northwest Ordinance is also pretty clear evidence that they thought slavery would eventually end.
 
I'm not going on the journey with rj beyond the scope of what was addressed to me here. I think I covered everything but women voting. Yes, I do believe they contemplated that. Women had wielded tremendous power in Europe before this country existed. Queen Mary and her sister Elizabeth to name a couple, and that's just England. Nothing suggests that they weren't aware of that fact and that an evolving society would prevent women from having their say.

I'll throw in the immigrant argument because I'm predicting it might go there. A large group of immigrants fought a war for independence here. Not sure if you were going there, but if you think they didn't contemplate future immigration issues, you'd be wrong.

Also sig, what's wrong with my posts?
 
WakeForestRanger said:
They never advocated for slaves to vote. They just wanted to count them for the purpose of maximizing the number of representatives the slave states got.

The Northwest Ordinance is also pretty clear evidence that they thought slavery would eventually end.
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Fair point, but it didn't abolish slavery or predict a Civil War that the North won. I haven't looked at it and in years, though.
 
Gotta say that it's amazing what the brain can do to alter that detail over the course of 20 years.
 
Biggus Deacus said:
I'm not going on the journey with rj beyond the scope of what was addressed to me here. I think I covered everything but women voting. Yes, I do believe they contemplated that. Women had wielded tremendous power in Europe before this country existed. Queen Mary and her sister Elizabeth to name a couple, and that's just England. Nothing suggests that they weren't aware of that fact and that an evolving society would prevent women from having their say.

I'll throw in the immigrant argument because I'm predicting it might go there. A large group of immigrants fought a war for independence here. Not sure if you were going there, but if you think they didn't contemplate future immigration issues, you'd be wrong.

Also sig, what's wrong with my posts?
Click to expand...

Not referring to your posts. They were informative.
 
"Bottom line is that HRC ran a flawed campaign that failed to motivate her base to vote. In my opinion, if you don't vote, you can't complain. Nonetheless, many protesters did not vote. I'm not thrilled with Trump either, but there's no reason to go Bz on the system."

I have said many times that HRC ran a horrible campaign. I said this during the run and after. It has nothing to do with my position that the EC is grossly unfair and that no person's vote for POTUS should count any more than anyone else's.

The Founding Fathers' concept of voting has been dramatically changed over the centuries as I have shown. Thus, the FF didn't want it this way concept is without merit.
 
simosfrostyone said:
RJK should be prohibited from posting on this subject again until he reads the Federalist Papers. The Framers clearly rejected pure democracy because it has never lasted. It's dumb to say you think they were wrong, given the success of the federalist republic they created, but even dumber to suggest they wouldn't have done what they did had they known what demographic trends would be over 200 years later. Kind of incredible that people who have the benefit of hindsight still get it wrong.
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The man who wrote most of Publius' output was personally involved in an electoral college coup scheme

2016%2F06%2F21%2F12%2Ftumblr_ncntmyCEzx1qizegzo1_1280.61f80.png
 
Kermit is trying to overthrow the US government? I could see Rick Astley, but Kermit?
 
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