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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

Sure, until some unforeseen issue that folks won't blame Manning for just happens to occur, at which point certain posters will go full #releasethememo to excuse our season away.

Meanwhile keatts will take state to the tournament with a bunch of dudes he didn't recruit to his system.
 
CharlotteDeac1 said:
Pretty sure all the Manning “supporters” have said year 5 is the make or break year. So no, but keep thinking that.
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Manning shills said Year 4 was the make or break year, as did most everyone, shill or not. Then last year, many exclaimed that we were one year ahead of schedule on the rebuild. Then this year happened, and year 5 became the make or break year. There will be more excuses to come, I'm sure.
 
06deacon said:
Sure, until some unforeseen issue that folks won't blame Manning for just happens to occur, at which point certain posters will go full #releasethememo to excuse our season away.

Meanwhile keatts will take state to the tournament with a bunch of dudes he didn't recruit to his system.
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Things that Manning deserves blame for:

1. The 2016 recruiting class.
2. This year’s performance.
3. End of game performance, to the extent that is a real statistical phenomenon and not just the feeling that we suck at the end of games more than a team of our caliber would be expected to.
4. Awful suits
5. Stunting the next Anthony Davis’s development by not playing him enough his freshman year.

When Manning doesn’t meet reasonable, consistent, measurable expectations I blame him. When he does meet or exceed those expectations I give him credit. A novel concept, I know.
 
RacerDeac said:
Manning shills said Year 4 was the make or break year, as did most everyone, shill or not. Then last year, many exclaimed that we were one year ahead of schedule on the rebuild. Then this year happened, and year 5 became the make or break year. There will be more excuses to come, I'm sure.
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That’s not true. Most people said making the tournament by year 4 was a make or break event. He did that. If Manning fails to make the tournament next year and someone catches me making a single post in his defense I will never post on these boards again.
 
RacerDeac said:
Manning shills said Year 4 was the make or break year, as did most everyone, shill or not. Then last year, many exclaimed that we were one year ahead of schedule on the rebuild. Then this year happened, and year 5 became the make or break year. There will be more excuses to come, I'm sure.
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Most that I remember (there aren’t many “supporters” on the boards) said year 5 was the year at or around 3 1/2 - halfway through last year. I am certainly not changing my opinion on that.
 
06deacon said:
Sure, until some unforeseen issue that folks won't blame Manning for just happens to occur, at which point certain posters will go full #releasethememo to excuse our season away.

Meanwhile keatts will take state to the tournament with a bunch of dudes he didn't recruit to his system.
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It’s almost like Keatts has more talent on his team and more talent typically means a better team. Using the metric from the other thread, State’s talent is 4.05 stars compared to 3.7 for Wake. For reference, 05’ Wake was 4.45 and Manning’s first team was 3.19. Talent matters.
 
RChildress107 said:
It’s almost like Keatts has more talent on his team and more talent typically means a better team. Using the metric from the other thread, State’s talent is 4.05 stars compared to 3.7 for Wake. For reference, 05’ Wake was 4.45 and Manning’s first team was 3.19. Talent matters.
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It's not Manning's job to have a roster with talent? He's had four year to build his roster and Keatts had a few months. State was also awful last season and lost just as many players as we did.
 
RChildress107 said:
It’s almost like Keatts has more talent on his team and more talent typically means a better team. Using the metric from the other thread, State’s talent is 4.05 stars compared to 3.7 for Wake. For reference, 05’ Wake was 4.45 and Manning’s first team was 3.19. Talent matters.
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And seemingly a good amount of experience. Senior and (fourth year) junior top two contributors, two more seniors who are in the next four of contributors. Same hunt also a senior.
 
RacerDeac said:
Manning shills said Year 4 was the make or break year, as did most everyone, shill or not. Then last year, many exclaimed that we were one year ahead of schedule on the rebuild. Then this year happened, and year 5 became the make or break year. There will be more excuses to come, I'm sure.
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It’s almost as if the goalposts keep moving.
 
My expectations for Manning from the beginning were:

Years 1 and 2: Stabilize the program, rebuild recruiting relationships, get your staff and system in place, show some glimmers of hope.

Years 3 and 4: Return to competitiveness, move safely back into the top 100, win some big recruiting battles, improve the talent all the way to the end of the bench, make an NCAA tourney, return to relevance.

Year 5 onward: begin a stretch similar to the mid-90s and early 2000s, make the tourney every year, get a couple top 4 seeds, contend for at least one ACC and national championships.

Unless we finish the season very strong (getting to 15 wins and mid to low 70s in Kenpom) he will have come up a little short of the Year 3-4 expectations. I think the likely explanation for that was whiffing on the 2016 class compounded by early departures that were unexpected at the time the 2016 class was being recruited. Manning deserves a good deal of blame for that.

My largest concerns going forward, in order, are whether he can keep up the recruiting momentum through the 19 and 20 classes, whether he can produce top end teams on the level of 05, 95-97, and whether his postseason results will look more mid 90s or more early 2000s.

As I’ve said repeatedly, I think our talent alone can carry us to a top 8 seed next year and I will be very concerned if it doesn’t.
 
Strickland33 said:
It’s almost as if the goalposts keep moving.
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They don’t. From every reasonable Manning “supporter” I remember, they’ve been saying year 5 since before this season even started (actually during last season). It’s just when someone defends any aspect of manning as a coach, all of you freak out like we’re trying to convince you he’s coach K.
 
Wake made the tourney last year. Pretty sure he was extended at the beginning of the year. He should get minimum of 2 more years after this one. Let him coach the kids he is recruiting next year.
 
RChildress107 said:
Just telling you how it sounds. I apologize for being bigoted to old white men.
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Oy vay...what a load of holier than thou, superiority complex moralizing bullshit. No wonder an already small pool of people posting on this board choose to check out when things start going sideways. Why argue with people like you who view everything through this kind of prism? So depressing.
 
Look fellas, Danny ain’t going nowhere for a couple of years. We WILL have a good season next year and folks will be calm and collected again. It would be a disastrous business decision to tear down the program and fire a coach who is getting commitments from top tier players. Danny and the team have underachieved this season but that doesn’t mean we run him out of town.

Everyone think through this logically. The bigger issue I see is the understandable frustration and lack of patience that we as a fan base have. Danny’s credibility has nothing to do with all the pain we’ve suffered from before he arrived. Give the guy a shot. He put together a good team last season, he’s getting recruits in, fans like him and he’s generating excitement around town, despite the setback this season.

People arguing that he’s squandered talent aren’t correct. Devin isn’t in the NBA for a reason. Sure, we had an NBA player on our roster the last 2 seasons and only made the tourney once. State had DSJ last year and was raked over the coals twice by Danny. I put my future posting on the line in another thread stating we’d win an NCAAT game next season. I have a strong feeling this year will be a blip on the radar and a lot of folks are going to eat crow.

Bump this post to the top a year, 2,3 years from now, regardless if I’m right. I think I’ll be right.
 
I think the problem that most are having is that the debacle of this season doesn't give much optimism that Danny is going to somehow completely turn this thing around next year. So it's easy to find things to pick at that suggest our one year of "success" is the aberration, not the other three years of disappointment.
 
RChildress107 said:
Most SJW millennial, myself included, admit we have implicit racial biases and work to identify them and counteract them at the same time we work to remove the elements of our society that create these biases in the first place, even though those elements have benefited us throughout our lives. Most of us, myself included, aren’t very good at it, but hey, it’s the effort that counts, right?
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Oh God, I should've kept reading, but this is even worse. Well, at least I know I can put you on ignore and not feel like I'm missing out. Does putting you on ignore make me a racist too? How about just treating people like you want to be treated and not worry so much about the color of somebody's skin? Call an asshole out for being an asshole, regardless of skin color. Call out a bad coach for making shitty substitutions and coaching decisions regardless of his skin color or pedigree as a former player.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
Look fellas, Danny ain’t going nowhere for a couple of years. We WILL have a good season next year and folks will be calm and collected again. It would be a disastrous business decision to tear down the program and fire a coach who is getting commitments from top tier players. Danny and the team have underachieved this season but that doesn’t mean we run him out of town.

Everyone think through this logically. The bigger issue I see is the understandable frustration and lack of patience that we as a fan base have. Danny’s credibility has nothing to do with all the pain we’ve suffered from before he arrived. Give the guy a shot. He put together a good team last season, he’s getting recruits in, fans like him and he’s generating excitement around town, despite the setback this season.

People arguing that he’s squandered talent aren’t correct. Devin isn’t in the NBA for a reason. Sure, we had an NBA player on our roster the last 2 seasons and only made the tourney once. State had DSJ last year and was raked over the coals twice by Danny. I put my future posting on the line in another thread stating we’d win an NCAAT game next season. I have a strong feeling this year will be a blip on the radar and a lot of folks are going to eat crow.

Bump this post to the top a year, 2,3 years from now, regardless if I’m right. I think I’ll be right.
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Certainly hope that this is true. But I tell you one thing that I'm right on as well. We've lost probably 10 games over his four years that even mediocre in-game coaching would have won. Maybe it does't make any difference in the long term of a program when he is winning sweet 16 games in two years, BUT wining is wining and sitting like a statue on the bench when we melt down end of games time after time.. It doesn't lend itself to fan loyalty. It's not just losing - its how we're losing. That concerns me.
 
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