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2023 Masters Thread

WindyCityDeac said:
If the reason Brooks went to LIV was concern over if he’d ever be able to play at a top level again, I have no issue with it. I get the idea of getting next level wealth when you are concerned about your ability to keep doing your job at a high level.

There is still the blood money thing, but again I’d be a hypocrite if i said that would be my number one concern. I mean I still go to restaurants and purchase products from companies I have issues with. I watched every second of that blood washed World Cup. It’s easy to say any one of us would turn down a bag from the Saudi’s but we all compromise our values in commerce every damn day…whether we know it or not.
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In retrospect, there was probably an element of doubt because of the 2 year injury that influenced his decision.

As to LIV, my primary issue is with Phil and Greg more so than the Saudis. Sportswashing has been around a long time. The Saudis could have sportswashed in a good way. Had they come me, I'd have said why don't you agree to double the pursee in the non-Rolex events on the DP tour so that it can now be called the DP Saud tour. That would have grown the game because those non-Rolex purses are a lot closer to LPGA events than PGA events, and the DP is generally almost as good a watch as average PGA tour stops. And I really like some of the courses they play. That would have cost the Saudis less than $100mil per year. Instead, they've backed an unsustainable tour that nobody watches just to let Phil and Greg enrich themselves. Phil and Greg are the architects of this crap, and they're essentially robbing the Saudis blind. I wonder what happens when Mohammad bin Salmon realizes that they've spent 3bil on a shit project.
 
uncaboref said:
Yeah, seems weird to make the Heritage a designated event, but I expect it to rotate off next year (along with the Waste Management Open), and give that status to another tour event to boost their field. I don't recall a field this strong ever competing there, even with McIlroy's WD (which now makes him ineligible for PIP bonus money since he has already skipped a designated event this year), so it is kind of cool if this is their plan to get some top guys to certain events that have never played there before.
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I don't think the waste management will change at all. Thats become a marquee event at the beginning of the year. I do like the plan and think Rory is kind of being whiny not adhering to it already.
 
LIV having 3 guys in the top-5 in the Masters is a huge win for them. I don't think anyone should try to deny that. Phil somehow manages to come T2 is absolutely wild after his last year and change. That is shocking to me, he is 50-something years old and hasn't played well at all lately.

Ultimately, I don't think it moves the needle for LIV long-term, but it does put some egg on the face of people who thought these guys would be dulled going into real competition. I thought they would not perform well, and was wrong.
 
I still don't know why folks thought talented golfers who have been competitive in and won multiple majors would suddenly be unable to compete at a course they've all played before just because a year has gone by.

I agree it doesn't really move the needle much since it doesn't alter any of the underlying structural issues the LIV has.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I still don't know why folks thought talented golfers who have been competitive in and won multiple majors would suddenly be unable to compete at a course they've all played before just because a year has gone by.

I agree it doesn't really move the needle much since it doesn't alter any of the underlying structural issues the LIV has.
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I wouldn't have bet on flipping the "on" switch after a year out of top competition.

If anyone had Phil, Brooks, and Reed finishing top-5 on their Bingo card, then let it be known now. I think it's fair to say that's a shocking result. Especially since DJ and Cam Smith were non-factors.
 
deacfan123 said:
I don't think the waste management will change at all. Thats become a marquee event at the beginning of the year. I do like the plan and think Rory is kind of being whiny not adhering to it already.
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It's been reported in multiple places that Pebble Beach AT&T pro-am will be one of the new designated events in 2024, and Phoenix is widely expected to rotate off next year in place of that. I think they are more interested in keeping their Super Bowl weekend date than anything. If Pebble Beach jumps on, that only leaves room for three more (since 12 of the 16 are already accounted for and will remain constants). I would definitely expect Harbor Town to rotate off (makes little sense to have a designated event the week after the Masters). They are also trying to group two designated events together (normally followed by 3 full field events when possible), so if the Wells Fargo stays as one, it would probably be joined by one of the events in Texas (Byron Nelson or Colonial?) for the week after or be shifted to directly before the PGA Championship.
 
PaddyWF said:
I wouldn't have bet on flipping the "on" switch after a year out of top competition.

If anyone had Phil, Brooks, and Reed finishing top-5 on their Bingo card, then let it be known now. I think it's fair to say that's a shocking result. Especially since DJ and Cam Smith were non-factors.
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I cashed top 5 tickets on all 3. Also lost top 5 bets on Gooch and Pieters. Betting the LIV players paid off big as the public left them longshots.

Brooks is quite happy with his decision to take the $150 million. He was fine if it meant no more majors. But it turns out you folks were wrong and he gets to play in every major. He’s excited about that too and equally thankful he no longer has to play the trash PGA events.
 
I call BS that you bet on five LIV players to finish top 5, including Mickelson, but somehow knew to fade both Cam Smith and DJ, along with the other LIV players that did nothing.

Brooks admitted that he was bummed that the didn't play in the Waste Management Open. He loves that event. Unless he wins one in the next two years, Brooks won't be playing in future majors.
 
He's been pretty wishy washy overall about whether he'd make the same decision last year if he'd been healthy. I think there's certainly some regret on the competitive front that's balanced out by the money he got. We'll see where these guys and the LIV are in a few years.

Phil Top 5 at 33-1 is a nice cash (went off 200-1 to win). It'll be interesting to see how these guys fare at the majors over the next couple years (not that the LIV will have a strong presence in the Masters soon other than guys who have won it or other majors recently).

But I'm not sure that Brooks is "thankful" not to have to play "the trash PGA events" compared to playing random courses in front of hundreds of people.
 
PaddyWF said:
I wouldn't have bet on flipping the "on" switch after a year out of top competition.

If anyone had Phil, Brooks, and Reed finishing top-5 on their Bingo card, then let it be known now. I think it's fair to say that's a shocking result. Especially since DJ and Cam Smith were non-factors.
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I think I posted before it started that the 3 I thought could contend were Brooks, DJ and Reed. But I was astonished Phil contended, albeit really just 1 great round.
 
What will really be interesting is to see if these liv guys try to qualify for the US Open/UK Brit Open when they aren't exempt into them. Or will their egos prevent them from doing so. IMO if they don't try then they never cared about winning/legacy etc, money only.
 
deacz said:
Agree. And I expect two things:

1) Only a few players will ask to come back, for several reasons. I would bet on Brooks and DJ. First, most of LIV could never earn comparable money on the PGA Tour, as many are well on the downside of their careers. Sergio, CHIII, etc. are not coming back to the grind when they got paid the craziest retirement money of all time. Second, LIV will claw back plenty (if not all) of the money it paid to these guys if they go back to the PGA Tour. So, those who seek to return will need to be able to afford that payback, plus expect to earn serious $$$ in their remaining years on the PGA Tour.

2) The PGA Tour will institute some period of time where they have to wait. 6 months, etc. Maybe a fine too. This would make it somewhat penal and have the appearance of dissuading others from leaving.

But I think there is a high likelihood that LIV dissolves within the next few years anyway. It's just too bad of a product and the whispers of returns will only increase.
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Some of the money? My brother, those LIV contracts state if these guys leave, they have to payback 3 or 4 times what they were paid to join. So a guy like DJ who has made $75 mill on the tour, and signed a contract with LIV paying him $150 mill, would have to pay back either $450 or $600 mill to leave.

They are LIV golfers until that thing falls apart.
 
donaldross said:
Brooks is quite happy with his decision to take the $150 million. He was fine if it meant no more majors. But it turns out you folks were wrong and he gets to play in every major. He’s excited about that too and equally thankful he no longer has to play the trash PGA events.
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So he was willing to chose money over accomplishment?

He has the talent to win the career grand slam, to do something that only 5 other golfers have ever accomplished. But he was "fine" with throwing that chance away.
 
Some of these guys aren't even going to be qualified for all the majors this year if the PGA list is up to date (and note that most guys top 100 in the world will likely get a PGA special exemption) Just at a glance:

Phil is qualified through 2026 for all majors for his 2021 PGA
Smith is qualified through 2027 for all majors for his 2022 Open
DJ is qualified through 2025 for all majors (plus Augusta for life and US Open until 2026)
Bryson is qualified through 2025 for all majors (plus US Open until 2030)
Brooks is qualified through 2024 for all majors (plus lifetime exemption for back-to-back PGA, US Open until 2028)
Reed is qualified for life at Augusta and I believe is now qualified for the Open but if the PGA list is up to date, he's not even qualified for the PGA and US Open this year
Garcia is qualified for life at Augusta and is qualified for the PGA
Stenson only qualifies for the Open
Bubba and Charl only qualified for Augusta nothing else
Oosthuizen isn't in the PGA or the US Open
Kaymer is in Open (until he's 60) and US Open (for one more year)

Gooch, Na, Varner, Kokrak, and Pieters generally need to get more OWGR points to qualify for anymore majors this year absent any one offs this year for their performance at a major last year (Pieters and Gooch for the Open)
 
I think a lot of people were emotionally invested in the LIV guys failing, and the media predictably picked up on it and blew it out of proportion, but the much more broadly held opinion is that the degradation of play from LIV guys would be over time, it would hurt the younger guys the most, and nothing about LIV seems sustainable. Phil pulling a rabbit out of his hat is surprising and Reed pulled a McIlroy by back-dooring a top 5 without ever actually being in contention.

Koepka was dominant for most of the tournament, fell apart in the final round spurring a million "3 rounds" jokes, and immediately made comments leading many to think he wants back on the PGA Tour at some point. Bryson missed the cut, DJ snuck in but only beat Fred Couples by 1 and was totally irrelevant, Cam Smith was a non-factor. Minus the injury year DJ has a top 10 in a major 15 years running. Bryson has 3 top 10's in the last 3 years including a win. Cam Smith had 4 top 10's in the last 3 years with a win - this was his 2nd worst Masters finish in the past 6 years.

Who knows how the year will play out, but this was by far the easiest major to stay relevant in. LIV got it done, but not really in the way most expected. If guys like DJ, Cam, Bryson, and Niemann - all of whom have been top 15 OWGR recently, don't show that they aren't in decline or losing the ability to actually win big tournaments - then you'll really see the wheels start to come off of the LIV experiment. Or they could win the next 3 majors and pull 10 more PGA Tour guys next year... Certainly will be entertaining to watch.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Some of these guys aren't even going to be qualified for all the majors this year if the PGA list is up to date (and note that most guys top 100 in the world will likely get a PGA special exemption) Just at a glance:

Phil is qualified through 2026 for all majors for his 2021 PGA
Smith is qualified through 2027 for all majors for his 2022 Open
DJ is qualified through 2025 for all majors (plus Augusta for life and US Open until 2026)
Bryson is qualified through 2025 for all majors (plus US Open until 2030)
Brooks is qualified through 2024 for all majors (plus lifetime exemption for back-to-back PGA, US Open until 2028)
Reed is qualified for life at Augusta and I believe is now qualified for the Open but if the PGA list is up to date, he's not even qualified for the PGA and US Open this year
Garcia is qualified for life at Augusta and is qualified for the PGA
Stenson only qualifies for the Open
Bubba and Charl only qualified for Augusta nothing else
Oosthuizen isn't in the PGA or the US Open
Kaymer is in Open (until he's 60) and US Open (for one more year)

Gooch, Na, Varner, Kokrak, and Pieters generally need to get more OWGR points to qualify for anymore majors this year absent any one offs this year for their performance at a major last year (Pieters and Gooch for the Open)
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The major wins make them qualified for the next 5 versions of each respective major, so Patrick's 2018 Masters win essentially expired at the end of last year (he was eligible for the 2018-2022 US Opens and PGA's, and probably gets extended to 2023 for the Open since they didn't have a 2020 Open, but he is technically not eligible for the 2023 PGA or US Open by way of his 2018 Masters win).

So Phil is now eligible for the US Open through 2025 (since it falls after the calendar on the PGA now), not 2026. He has lifetime exemptions for the other three majors based on previous wins.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Some of these guys aren't even going to be qualified for all the majors this year if the PGA list is up to date (and note that most guys top 100 in the world will likely get a PGA special exemption) Just at a glance:

Phil is qualified through 2026 for all majors for his 2021 PGA
Smith is qualified through 2027 for all majors for his 2022 Open
DJ is qualified through 2025 for all majors (plus Augusta for life and US Open until 2026)
Bryson is qualified through 2025 for all majors (plus US Open until 2030)
Brooks is qualified through 2024 for all majors (plus lifetime exemption for back-to-back PGA, US Open until 2028)
Reed is qualified for life at Augusta and I believe is now qualified for the Open but if the PGA list is up to date, he's not even qualified for the PGA and US Open this year
Garcia is qualified for life at Augusta and is qualified for the PGA
Stenson only qualifies for the Open
Bubba and Charl only qualified for Augusta nothing else
Oosthuizen isn't in the PGA or the US Open
Kaymer is in Open (until he's 60) and US Open (for one more year)

Gooch, Na, Varner, Kokrak, and Pieters generally need to get more OWGR points to qualify for anymore majors this year absent any one offs this year for their performance at a major last year (Pieters and Gooch for the Open)
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LIV won't make it past 2025.
 
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