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MBB Game 15: @ FSU Tuesday (yikes) 7 pm ACCN

Keller just seems too slow, too small, and can't score inside. If he had good hands and didn't get pushed around so much inside and scored a little he would be a viable option. With Reid out we really don't have a solid back up. Think Marsh might need a second look but Forbes knows better than me. Just think Marsh can get a few dunks and might not get pushed around as much.
 
ProbationDeac said:
These kinds of games are going to happen, especially on the road. There was probably some "let down" after the win on Saturday too.
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I just hate when it’s this predictable by everyone (“this is a trap game”) and yet it still comes to pass. That’s one of my least favorite aspects of being a sports fan. “Mitch isn’t going to succeed! Don’t start him again!”But such is the nature of sports, and life.

And of course a lot of unexpected stuff happens too, which is the hope that keeps us hooked.
 
DeacDaddy said:
I just hate when it’s this predictable by everyone (“this is a trap game”) and yet it still comes to pass. That’s one of my least favorite aspects of being a sports fan. “Mitch isn’t going to succeed! Don’t start him again!”But such is the nature of sports, and life.

And of course a lot of unexpected stuff happens too, which is the hope that keeps us hooked.
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People call half of our ACC games trap games every season. We just only remember the ones that actually end up that way
 
saus21 said:
Keller just seems too slow, too small, and can't score inside. If he had good hands and didn't get pushed around so much inside and scored a little he would be a viable option. With Reid out we really don't have a solid back up. Think Marsh might need a second look but Forbes knows better than me. Just think Marsh can get a few dunks and might not get pushed around as much.
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Keller, like everyone, had a bad night but I’d argue he’s been much better than Marsh on the season.
 
saus21 said:
Keller just seems too slow, too small, and can't score inside. If he had good hands and didn't get pushed around so much inside and scored a little he would be a viable option. With Reid out we really don't have a solid back up. Think Marsh might need a second look but Forbes knows better than me. Just think Marsh can get a few dunks and might not get pushed around as much.
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If you think Keller is too slow, you haven't paid attention to Marsh.
 
Already mentioned, but Forbes will fix what we all saw: "we played right into their hands. We tried to beat them off the dribble from the get go. That's what they want. We did not move the ball or share the ball."

Basically all that dribble drive, juke, dribble, penetrate, no passing crap will not work and needs to stop immediately.
 
Realistically, how many college teams have multiple big men with decent offensive skills? We have two with Carr and Reid, and I'm perfectly happy with that. Beyond that, we really just need rebounding and defense, which Keller has been doing just fine with. People have way too high of expectations if you expect Keller to come in off the bench and score in any way other than spot up jump shots.
 
deacon14 said:
It genuinely isn’t close, Keller has definitely been better, and I’m just assuming anyone calling for Marsh at this point is an old-school basketball fan that assumes bigger=better
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It's not simply "bigger is better." It's that in this particular game, against an F$U that is the biggest in college, a bigger guy might provide useful minutes when Reid is out.
 
Deaconblue said:
It's not simply "bigger is better." It's that in this particular game, against an F$U that is the biggest in college, a bigger guy might provide useful minutes when Reid is out.
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FSU has tall guys, but it's in the athletic mold of being tall, not the strong mold of being tall. Did you want Marsh to come in to guard Baba Miller? I certainly didn't
 
deacon14 said:
It genuinely isn’t close, Keller has definitely been better, and I’m just assuming anyone calling for Marsh at this point is an old-school basketball fan that assumes bigger=better
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It isn't close? Marsh's stats from last year are better than Keller's this year (and if you are going to compare this year where Marsh's action is limited to 6 games, they both have similar, minuscule numbers). That's not saying a whole lot since neither provides much. Keller moves better without the ball, which probably would matter more if his movement didn't put him out of position so much. I've seen a few times where he has played good post D on somebody, and many more times when they simply bypass him or bump him out of the way.

Neither Marsh nor Keller are good. They aren't even fair. But they are our backups that we rely heavily on because Reid is constantly in foul trouble. Whether it's Marsh or Keller playing should be situational, and there have been games this season where it was clear that Keller was struggling more than he usually struggles. Sometimes you need slow moving mass in the middle.
 
deacon14 said:
FSU has tall guys, but it's in the athletic mold of being tall, not the strong mold of being tall. Did you want Marsh to come in to guard Baba Miller? I certainly didn't
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Not Baba.

But Cohren or Green.
 
Deaconblue said:
Not Baba.

But Cohren or Green.
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completely agree you have to at least try Marsh against big teams but only on the road games. You CANNOT do much worse than Keller in 10 mins last night with no stats to speak of except for 1 TO and 2 PFs and a number of times getting abused on the inside giving up easy buckets in the paint. How about the time the FSU player just turned to shoot and he went flying down on his back like the Rock was going against him? He isn't confident enough in his shot on the road to trust him and think he will contribute on O side and he is way too weak and soft against similar sized or bigger players on D side. Marsh isn't going to be pushed around in the paint and at least gets some boards and has shown that at times in the past he can contribute. Again you have NOTHING to lose to at least give him a shot after it is clear Zach is playing like a deer in the lights after the first 3-5 mins.
 
BigDeacEnergy said:
If you think Keller is too slow, you haven't paid attention to Marsh.
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point being that at least marsh has size and can dunk. Both are slow and I would say keller gets pushed around more. larger point is we don't have a back up 5 and perhaps marsh needs a few minutes especially against a big front line
 
Marsh clogs up the middle, and we want to drive into the middle. So, we want the middle open, and Marsh is not only in the way but he also draws and keeps the guy guarding him in the middle. He can't play anywhere else but in the middle. Keller can.
 
Marsh was good for two-three lob dunks per game last year, mostly on passes from Appleby. Nobody seems to have been able to make those passes this year. Force opponents to defend that or watch Wake rack up the points.
 
awakegirl said:
Keller, like everyone, had a bad night but I’d argue he’s been much better than Marsh on the season.
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Not a big Marsh fan but particularly when Carr and Reid were out and with their front line, perhaps Marsh might have been able to stand his ground a bit better. Not as big a fan as Keller as some are here particularly at the 5 spot. He can do ok with a smaller front line but last night was not good. Marsh has played so little that it is really tough to gauge.
 
Deaconblue said:
Marsh was good for two-three lob dunks per game last year, mostly on passes from Appleby. Nobody seems to have been able to make those passes this year. Force opponents to defend that or watch Wake rack up the points.
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It's when teams try to play either high zone or 3/4 front the post in m2m. Appleby and Manman would drive until they made someone help, then either finish or just lob it on their heads. I pointed it out last night, but we had a few possessions where Boopie could have lobbed to Reid if he crashed, but Reid just kept the seal and let Boopie finish. Then next time Reid sealed and Boopie kicked out to the guy in the corner for a wide open 3 when the help came.
 
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saus21 said:
point being that at least marsh has size and can dunk. Both are slow and I would say keller gets pushed around more. larger point is we don't have a back up 5 and perhaps marsh needs a few minutes especially against a big front line
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Keller may get pushed around more but Marsh gets blown by a lot more. If the opposing player catches the ball outside of the paint you can almost bet he'll scurry by Marsh for an easy 2
 
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