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Sousa and Cameron

myDeaconmyhand said:
We knew that Miss. St. had a great defense. Tanner is a pocket QB, and he was being swamped the entire 2nd half, and that's why his safety valve QB had a career game. Tanner didn't have enough time to make any longer reads, it was a drop and then immediately "oh shit", pass it to camp over the middle.
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I'm a Tanner Price fan, but there were multiple possessions when he had more than enough time and wide open receivers that he never saw or he missed them badly. Tanner has carried us a lot of games. This was not one of them.
 
1976Deac said:
I'm a Tanner Price fan, but there were multiple possessions when he had more than enough time and wide open receivers that he never saw or he missed them badly. Tanner has carried us a lot of games. This was not one of them.
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He had a really bad game, no doubt, I just don't blame him for taking all those sacks.
 
I should get kudos for digging up this thread and not starting a new one ;). I like Tanner a lot, but I'm definitely not in the camp that thinks he should be given the starting the QB job because he's started the last 2 seasons and had a good season (in whole) this season. I know Sousa is pretty raw and I'm certainly not saying he can be near the player of a Cam Newton or RGIII, but I think our hope is he can evenually do some of the same type things those guys do. Tanner has a great arm, but he's limited in his ability to run the option and has yet to get over the "deer in the headlights" look at critical times. My point is if Sousa looks ahead of schedule and more effective in spring and fall, then he's gets the nod. Chances of that being the case aren't good, I'm sure, but I just don't think it should be a given in the coach's mind that Tanner has the starting job set in stone.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
He had a really bad game, no doubt, I just don't blame him for taking all those sacks.
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I don't blame him for all of them, but I certainly think there are times when Tanner can get out of the pocket and throw it away instead of taking the sack.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
I don't blame him for all of them, but I certainly think there are times when Tanner can get out of the pocket and throw it away instead of taking the sack.
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Same commentary from a MSU fan I know. He was surprised at the number of sacks they had. Meanwhile, Lobo just keeps calling the standard pocket passing plays despite the success we've had while rolling Tanner out in the limited times we've attempted it.
 
RacerDeac said:
Same commentary from a MSU fan I know. He was surprised at the number of sacks they had. Meanwhile, Lobo just keeps calling the standard pocket passing plays despite the success we've had while rolling Tanner out in the limited times we've attempted it.
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I agree with this--no idea why we didn't have more designed rollouts when we knew they would be bringing pressure. I keep thinking back to the Syracuse game--in the second half, almost every passing play was a designed rollout because of all the pressure we were getting up the middle with Whitlock and the linebackers. Plus, it seems to me that Tanner is often more accurate when he is on the move. Would have been a good idea to do this more often.
 
If nothing else, rolling out makes throwing the ball away much easier while being pressured. It also allows you to know where your pressure is coming from rather than being blindsided when our linemen get absolutely run over and pushed 3-4 feet back off the line at the snap.
 
1) I agree that Tanner takes some bad sacks. To me, his internal clock is the one aspect of his game that needs the most improvement this offseason.

2) I also agree that the o-line didn't do him any favors this year and that we could have helped him by rolling him out on occasion. The problem with consistently rolling your quarterback out is that you only make the D defend one side of the field which can lead to some tough throws and allows defenders from the unused side of the field to abandon their assignments and pursue from the backside.

I would rather have seen us add more hot routes underneath to let our playmakers like Camp and Givens try and make plays (much like the 49ers did early this season) while using the desiged roll out in situations where we wanted to give our receivers more time to work downfield.

Either way, the bottom line is that we didn't adapt or innovate even when faced with repeated proof that what we were doing wasn't a recipe for consistent success against a dedicated pass rush and Tanner compounded the problem by holding the ball in the pocket for too long.
 
ibleedgoldandblack said:
1) I agree that Tanner takes some bad sacks. To me, his internal clock is the one aspect of his game that needs the most improvement this offseason.

2) I also agree that the o-line didn't do him any favors this year and that we could have helped him by rolling him out on occasion. The problem with consistently rolling your quarterback out is that you only make the D defend one side of the field which can lead to some tough throws and allows defenders from the unused side of the field to abandon their assignments and pursue from the backside.

I would rather have seen us add more hot routes underneath to let our playmakers like Camp and Givens try and make plays (much like the 49ers did early this season) while using the desiged roll out in situations where we wanted to give our receivers more time to work downfield.

Either way, the bottom line is that we didn't adapt or innovate even when faced with repeated proof that what we were doing wasn't a recipe for consistent success against a dedicated pass rush and Tanner compounded the problem by holding the ball in the pocket for too long.
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I'm with you on all of it. Rolling out wasn't the only answer. The lack of adaptation is really the key. I'm still not sure how our OC can be watching the game from the sideline rather than the booth.

It seems like the only times we actually ran quick underneath routes were on 3rd and 4th downs when we needed 9+ yards. It's like Lobo thinks he is being super tricky and clever, catching the other team off guard, despite it almost never working out. :wtf:
 
RacerDeac said:
I'm with you on all of it. Rolling out wasn't the only answer. The lack of adaptation is really the key. I'm still not sure how our OC can be watching the game from the sideline rather than the booth.

It seems like the only times we actually ran quick underneath routes were on 3rd and 4th downs when we needed 9+ yards. It's like Lobo thinks he is being super tricky and clever, catching the other team off guard, despite it almost never working out. :wtf:
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I definitely think that's a big part of his problems at playcalling. We've all heard how smart and intelligent Lobo is, but sometimes you can be too smart for you're own good. It pretty clear to me that he tries to get too cute or run something that he thinks the defense might not be looking for, when I think we'd be better off running one of our bread and butter plays. I'm sure his thinking on the 3rd down option call was that the defense would be playing the pass, but Tanner doesn't run the option well and we've had no real success with it this year. It was a terrible call and sometimes you're better off not trying to trick the defense with something out of character, but saying we're going to run something we're good at even if the defense thinks it's could be coming and we're just going to be better than the defense on that play, IMHO.
 
RacerDeac said:
I'm with you on all of it. Rolling out wasn't the only answer. The lack of adaptation is really the key. I'm still not sure how our OC can be watching the game from the sideline rather than the booth.

It seems like the only times we actually ran quick underneath routes were on 3rd and 4th downs when we needed 9+ yards. It's like Lobo thinks he is being super tricky and clever, catching the other team off guard, despite it almost never working out. :wtf:
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I'm not sure how our OL coach could coach from the booth rather than the sidelines.
 
PhDeac said:
I'm not sure how our OL coach could coach from the booth rather than the sidelines.
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So, what you're saying is that our OL coach shouldn't be our playcaller? :thumbsup:
 
People can blame Tanner or Givens all they want but that game was lost in the trenches. Their D line flat out dominated us in the 2nd half. Blame those seniors on the O Line who got man handled all over the field.
 
BlastOnPatrol said:
People can blame Tanner or Givens all they want but that game was lost in the trenches. Their D line flat out dominated us in the 2nd half. Blame those seniors on the O Line who got man handled all over the field.
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+1. 6 sacks is inexcusable. :mad:
 
dcon69 said:
Godfrey had a tough time.
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Even tough our O-line will be young next year, if they are quicker, we'll be better up there. I think the thing that hurt the O-line was quickness, certainly not size. I've heard Grobe say the young'uns up front may be more athletic and they seem to be just as big. If that's true, I actually think the O-line could perform better next year.
 
BlastOnPatrol said:
People can blame Tanner or Givens all they want but that game was lost in the trenches. Their D line flat out dominated us in the 2nd half. Blame those seniors on the O Line who got man handled all over the field.
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i.e it was both playcalling (Lobo) and the O-line (Lobo).
 
The Circle of Offensive Line Play at Wake Forest

OL struggles --> "Don't worry. Wait till they get some more experience."
OL struggles --> "I know they're seniors, but wait till these young OL get on the field. They're going to be studs."
OL struggles --> "What did you expect they're only freshmen and sophomores?"

Repeat.
 
PhDeac said:
The Circle of Offensive Line Play at Wake Forest

OL struggles --> "Don't worry. Wait till they get some more experience."
OL struggles --> "I know they're seniors, but wait till these young OL get on the field. They're going to be studs."
OL struggles --> "What did you expect they're only freshmen and sophomores?"

Repeat.
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That's about right Ph. We have had a couple good OL's in Grobes Tenure though. It's just a matter of recruits panning out while finding a couple Diamonds in the rough.
 
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