• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

2023 Carolina Panthers thread - HOF Julius Peppers

WindyCityDeac said:
I have no idea if Fields can be a franchise guy. But I also realize what I see as an archetypical franchise QB has changed a lot and is what makes it difficult for me to see if he is one.
Click to expand...
No, it really hasn't. People just like the narrative that has, as they try to justify their team's bad QB choices. The Super Bowl winning QBs for the last 20 years are:

Mahomes (2)
Stafford
Brady (6)
Foles
Peyton Manning (2)
ELIte Manning (2)
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger (2)

Every single one of those QBs is/was an extremely good passer. Some of them like Mahomes, Wilson, and Rodgers can run when they have to and it can certainly help them in some situations, but their primary strength is far and away their passing ability. Not one of them is a run-first QB who is a below-average or mediocre passer. Justin Fields is, and will never be, anywhere near any of those guys.

The notion that a run-first QB should be targeted to win a Super Bowl is still a completely false narrative. It is like the current NBA belief that you need your 7-foot center jacking threes. Nope, not at all. Teams need to stick with what actually works and stop trying to create shit that doesn't.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
No, it really hasn't. People just like the narrative that has, as they try to justify their team's bad QB choices. The Super Bowl winning QBs for the last 20 years are:

Mahomes (2)
Stafford
Brady (6)
Foles
Peyton Manning (2)
ELIte Manning (2)
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger (2)

Every single one of those QBs is/was an extremely good passer. Some of them like Mahomes, Wilson, and Rodgers can run when they have to and it can certainly help them in some situations, but their primary strength is far and away their passing ability. Not one of them is a run-first QB who is a below-average or mediocre passer. Justin Fields is, and will never be, anywhere near any of those guys.

The notion that a run-first QB should be targeted to win a Super Bowl is still a completely false narrative. It is like the current NBA belief that you need your 7-foot center jacking threes. Nope, not at all. Teams need to stick with what actually works and stop trying to create shit that doesn't.
Click to expand...

How has everyone decided Fields is below average in year 2 with the trash team he has ? I still don’t get that
 
PhDeac said:
Meh. DJ is one of those guys if you don't follow him you don't realize how good he's been. Bears fans probably actually watched his stats and saw his highlights for the first time and got excited. Also the Bears have a horrible WR history.


The Panthers have a horrible WR history for a much shorter time and DJ is 4th and has less than half as many yards as Smitty.
Click to expand...

This reminds me of the stat that if you took Tom Brady’s stats exclusively from his 40s, he would be the franchise leading passer for the Bears, most yards and touchdowns.
 
guitardeac said:
I really like this

i also think the most important thing for a rookie QB is to have a good offensive line. More important even than having stud receivers.
Click to expand...
IMO, you build a team inside out. If you can not win at the line of scrimmage, then it doesn’t matter who is the QB and skill position players. Also, IMO the second most important position in all of sports is LT/Blind Side Tackle.

Look at the Philadelphia Eagles philosophy of building a team. Over the past 15 years all but 3-4 of their 1st Rd picks have been either offensive or defensive linemen. They made 2 Super Bowls within 5 years of each other with different QBs, and the strength of those teams were both sides of the line. For both Super Bowl Teams, 3 of the 5 starting offensive linemen were the same and 3 of the 4 starting defensive linemen were the same (but they went 7-8 deep each game on the DLine). The 2 lost starters on the OLine were replaced through the draft with 2 quality players (one already made the Pro Bowl and the other should have made the Pro Bowl). Then the lost starter on the DLine was replaced with a better starter through free agency.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
No, it really hasn't. People just like the narrative that has, as they try to justify their team's bad QB choices. The Super Bowl winning QBs for the last 20 years are:

Mahomes (2)
Stafford
Brady (6)
Foles
Peyton Manning (2)
ELIte Manning (2)
Russell Wilson
Joe Flacco
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Roethlisberger (2)

Every single one of those QBs is/was an extremely good passer. Some of them like Mahomes, Wilson, and Rodgers can run when they have to and it can certainly help them in some situations, but their primary strength is far and away their passing ability. Not one of them is a run-first QB who is a below-average or mediocre passer. Justin Fields is, and will never be, anywhere near any of those guys.

The notion that a run-first QB should be targeted to win a Super Bowl is still a completely false narrative. It is like the current NBA belief that you need your 7-foot center jacking threes. Nope, not at all. Teams need to stick with what actually works and stop trying to create shit that doesn't.
Click to expand...
Jalen Hurts was a dumb penalty away of having a good chance of being on this list. Fields, down to how the Eagles surrounded Hurts with talent in year 3, is looking to replicate Hurts trajectory.
 
NSFWake said:
Jalen Hurts was a dumb penalty away of having a good chance of being on this list. Fields, down to how the Eagles surrounded Hurts with talent in year 3, is looking to replicate Hurts trajectory.
Click to expand...
Devonta Smith and AJ Brown have helped Hurts, but the quality of the OLine is what allows Hurts to have the time to throw the ball to his WRs.
 
The Eagles also had an absolutely stacked roster across the board, that isn't exactly easy to replicate
 
Deaconblue said:
Much easier to pay guys at other positions when your QB is making peanuts.
Click to expand...
You forgot they paid Wentz around $130mil from 2019 through 2021, including around $30mil of dead cap in 2021. 2022 was the first season Wentz’s contract didn’t count towards their salary cap.

4 of their 5 OLinemen are signed through at least 2024. The Eagles drafted Kelece’s replacement last year, Cam Jurgens, but he can be moved to RG and replace Seumalo if Kelece comes back for 2023. On the defensive line, 3 DLinemen starters are signed through 2023.

My point is that the Eagles philosophy has been to build through The Trenches, investing both high draft picks and second/third contracts into the position group that accounts for 40% (9 of 22) of the starters on a team.
 
Seems like we aren’t that far from a team trading a 6th year would be franchise QB for picks so they can draft another QB on a rookie deal rather than pay $50M+ a year.
 
PhDeac said:
Seems like we aren’t that far from a team trading a 6th year would be franchise QB for picks so they can draft another QB on a rookie deal rather than pay $50M+ a year.
Click to expand...
Like Lamar Jackson?
 
I’m not talking about a contract dispute. I’m talking about a team saying give us the #1 pick and additional and we will do a sign and trade for our star QB because that’s a cap friendly move for the rest of the roster.
 
Oh I could definitely see that becoming a trend. In fact I think it's almost likely that happens if more teams start to give QBs guaranteed contracts.
 
WindyCityDeac said:
How has everyone decided Fields is below average in year 2 with the trash team he has ? I still don’t get that
Click to expand...
In part because Fields was the QB of said trash team and they were, not surprisingly, trash. He also finished DFL in QB rating. We also have several years of watching him throw the football in college and the NFL and it is clear that he sucks at it, relatively speaking.
 
guitardeac said:
Oh I could definitely see that becoming a trend. In fact I think it's almost likely that happens if more teams start to give QBs guaranteed contracts.
Click to expand...
It is hard to build a quality roster when you have around 25% of your cap space tied up in one guy.
 
The draft scouting report on Fields was that his strength was he was an accurate thrower. The concerns with him were not about his throwing or his arm. That’s what is weird. I do remember that specifically (and I just looked up his draft report to be sure)
because I remember getting the inside word from my Panthers connection that they didn’t want to draft him because they didn’t think he could hit the ocean. I remember thinking it was odd the Panthers had that take in him. Maybe they were right.

I still think he has it in him to be a good NFL passer. He’s got some things to clean up and he needs better players around him but I think he will be ok.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top